Hillhouse and pitch callers

[Greenmonsters]

Bottom line is they will most likely never call a game in college. So are you going to prepare a catcher for what they will be doing or spend time considerable time on what you personally think they should be doing come game time? Keep in mind that it is very common for college catchers to not have any real catching experience until they get to college. The truth is that TB catcher onlys have a high washout rate. Why? Why because they are obsessed with pop-times, blocking, and can't hit college pitching. If you want your DD to succeed as a catcher in college make them a hitter first, utility player who can also catch second. College programs do not want on trick ponies who only catch. They want athletes that can add value in multiple roles.

Jake is approaching her final games in college. She has rarely if ever had an issue with how the game was called from the dugout. However, she would have really appreciated having a consistent catcher that could receive a strike while keeping it a strike and field a bunt more than 2 feet in front of the plate. Along with that some blocking and the ability to keep runners at bay is a nice to have. As to what pitches to throw and how to attack each batter, that was already discussed days prior when they studied the video.

RB- the second half of your post highlights the fact that many coaches don't understand or value what a good catcher can add to the game. Of course they need a good enough stick to merit a spot in the starting line up. That's why they need to be putting in more time working on their game than any other non- pitching playing position.

Regarding pitch calling in college, perhaps when more catchers arrive at that level having had the opportunity to develop that skill set, we'll see more coaches delegating the authority.

 

[riseball]

...Regarding pitch calling in college, perhaps when more catchers arrive at that level having had the opportunity to develop that skill set, we'll see more coaches delegating the authority.

I just do not see a return to the good old days when coaches today are spending 8 - 12 hours per series to develop a pitching strategy. That simply will not work for a student athlete. Not to mention some of the new breed of pitching coaches know the game, and the pitchers better than pitchers know themselves. College players are stretched way too thin to find a full day to review stats, watch video, etc. The days of showing up on game day and winging it are long gone. The game has evolved beyond that.

 

[sbmom19]

DD started calling her own games from behind the plate when she was 13. Catchers have the best view of the batter and the good ones can read a lot from that position. It is important that they also know their pitchers strengths and weaknesses and have the pitcher's trust so the catcher must be confident back there.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Why can't it be both ways? Why can't the coach (or catcher) call the pitch with the pitcher having the final say so (nod yes or no).

That's how we handle it. The pitcher is responsible for every pitch she throws. Technically the pitcher could shake off EVERY pitch and call the whole game.

 

[Softball scholar]

Bottom line is they will most likely never call a game in college. So are you going to prepare a catcher for what they will be doing or spend time considerable time on what you personally think they should be doing come game time? Keep in mind that it is very common for college catchers to not have any real catching experience until they get to college. The truth is that TB catcher onlys have a high washout rate. Why? Why because they are obsessed with pop-times, blocking, and can't hit college pitching. If you want your DD to succeed as a catcher in college make them a hitter first, utility player who can also catch second. College programs do not want on trick ponies who only catch. They want athletes that can add value in multiple roles.

Jake is approaching her final games in college. She has rarely if ever had an issue with how the game was called from the dugout. However, she would have really appreciated having a consistent catcher that could receive a strike while keeping it a strike and field a bunt more than 2 feet in front of the plate. Along with that some blocking and the ability to keep runners at bay is a nice to have. As to what pitches to throw and how to attack each batter, that was already discussed days prior when they studied the video.

My two cents: On my DDs high school team, the catcher calls the pitches. This has been good and bad at times. Sometimes she's great , and then you have moments like they totally forget the changeup and how to setup pitches.

Riseball, I agree with you in the college game. Ill add, my perception on the college game is that the catchers rarely call the game. Correct me if im wrong, but I bets the college catchers calling games is pretty rare. I think whats happened in the college game is the amount of video and scouting reports on hitters. I think there's a coach on the bench with a huge notebook of scouting report on each player. So they're trying to use this info to maximize strategy on how to get each hitter out. Yes, catchers and pitchers can review it before the game, but I think most coaches believe the knowledgeable can leverage this info more by calling it from the bench instead of the catcher trying to come up with strategy as you go along.

 

[riseball]

Why can't it be both ways? Why can't the coach (or catcher) call the pitch with the pitcher having the final say so (nod yes or no).

That's how we handle it. The pitcher is responsible for every pitch she throws. Technically the pitcher could shake off EVERY pitch and call the whole game.

That may work fine in TB/HS but this is College Ball. While I appreciate the nostalgia of having the catcher call the game as it was back in the day, it is going to be very hard to convince a Head Coach who is on a year to year contract to take a trip down memory lane turn over the reins. Coaches do what works to make their team successful and typically do not make decisions based on sentiment. With the way the game has evolved they have much more confidence and success with money ball than the gut feel of an 18-22YO. Think of it this way, if you had a business and your home and putting food on the table was on the line, would you turn over most of the business decisions to your receptionist? After all she has a great view of the business, knows all the customers, etc. Didn't think so.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I just do not see a return to the good old days when coaches today are spending 8 - 12 hours per series to develop a pitching strategy. That simply will not work for a student athlete. Not to mention some of the new breed of pitching coaches know the game, and the pitchers better than pitchers know themselves. College players are stretched way too thin to find a full day to review stats, watch video, etc. The days of showing up on game day and winging it are long gone. The game has evolved beyond that.

The problems I see with this approach are that it primarily is based on pitching to perceived hitter weaknesses and assumes a perfect umpire, that there is no temporal variability in the pitcher's stuff and that the hitters make no adjustments. I do think it is valuable to know a hitter's tendencies and believe that easily coded onto a wristband, but the other variables are read much faster and more accurately from directly behind the plate than from the dugout. FWIW, I weigh a pitcher's strengths much more heavily than a batter's weaknesses and recognize that the pitcher's stuff typically varies over the course of the game.

 

[Greenmonsters]

That may work fine in TB/HS but this is College Ball. While I appreciate the nostalgia of having the catcher call the game as it was back in the day, it is going to be very hard to convince a Head Coach who is on a year to year contract to take a trip down memory lane turn over the reins. Coaches do what works to make their team successful and typically do not make decisions based on sentiment. With the way the game has evolved they have much more confidence and success with money ball than the gut feel of an 18-22YO. Think of it this way, if you had a business and your home and putting food on the table was on the line, would you turn over most of the business decisions to your receptionist? After all she has a great view of the business, knows all the customers, etc. Didn't think so.

After teaching her all I knew and mentoring her, I'd give her the keys because I know from first hand experience that she could be more effective from behind the plate than I could be from a bad angle 50+ feet away.

 

[riseball]

The problems I see with this approach are that it primarily is based on pitching to perceived hitter weaknesses and assumes a perfect umpire, that there is no temporal variability in the pitcher's stuff and that the hitters make no adjustments. I do think it is valuable to know a hitter's tendencies and believe that easily coded onto a wristband, but the other variables are read much faster and more accurately from directly behind the plate than from the dugout. FWIW, I weigh a pitcher's strengths much more heavily than a batter's weaknesses and recognize that the pitcher's stuff typically varies over the course of the game.

Actually the individual strengths of the pitcher are weighed very heavily in the process. The resulting plan is very dynamic, and relies on regular communication from the battery. But given the multiple scenarios addressed, there is far too much information that can be retain by any catcher. Pitch calling now has one foot in the realm of art and the other in the realm of science. As shown by what happens at the highest levels if you only have the catcher calling the game you are at a significant disadvantage.

IME more often than not pitch calling, especially at the younger ages is more of a theatrical exercise than a legitimate tactic. You need a pitcher that can actually pitch and a catcher that knows the difference between a riseball and a drop. If you place a 2 liter bottle on a milk crate and your pitcher cannot hit it 7 out of 10 times you are not calling pitches, just expressing your hope for what you would prefer to happen.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I would love to see a study done where they let the following call pitches:

1. Division 1 coach
2. Pitchers Parent
3. Catcher
4. Travel Ball Coach
5. Monkey Rolling a Dice

My money is on the monkey...