Hand Speed vs Bat Speed thru the swing

[fanboi22]

I asked this in another thread but curious anyones thought. It may give me clarity on bat lag and pivot point thoughts.

Does the bat speed ever equal or get close to the speed of the hands during the swing. I thought i saw a zepp article on this but cannot find it.

The question is based on comparing a pivot point with your hands that the barrel turns around which is a rigid point. So just like thinking of a wheel where the farther in the wheel you go the slower it spins, the farther out, the more distance it has to travel and hence, faster. i think this would require stiff hands to hold the barrel out perpendicular to the forearms.

vs, starting with a your hands in a similar position that then starts to get the bat into a lag position after the initial turn (not keeping perpendicular) where the bat and the hands are essentially moving forward at the same rate, eventually snapping the wrists and the barrel accelerates to contact. Like the loose and oily i have heard in the past.

as i have tried to have my DD just pivot around ala tewks and others, i think that may be a good start to the swing but think the magic may happen just after that when the hands and the barrel match speeds then the barrel takes off and whips into impact.

This is all assuming the same essential bat path. thanks.

 

[Rolling Hard]

I would hope that the bat/barrel is always moving faster than the hands and a lot faster at impact.

 

[fanboi22]

I would hope that the bat/barrel is always moving faster than the hands and a lot faster at impact.

In that case you dont believe in bat lag before impact?

 

[TDS]

I would focus on the change in direction of the barrel (free hands) while the hands seek a hand pivot point.

 

[2br02b]

Does that mean that the closer the hands are to the body the (potentially) faster the barrel speed? At what point does it become a hindrance rather than a boon?

 

[fanboi22]

I would focus on the change in direction of the barrel (free hands) while the hands seek a hand pivot point.

What do you mean 'change in direction of the barrel'? Does a barrel change directions in a neck slot swing?

Why do hands 'seek' a pivot point, i thought the pivot point (HPP) was up at the shoulder when the swing 'starts' - and i think when it starts is when you start counting frames on the swing.

 

[fanboi22]

Does that mean that the closer the hands are to the body the (potentially) faster the barrel speed? At what point does it become a hindrance rather than a boon?

That is my question, when i was watching the Tewks videos, it seemed like he was promoting keeping that tight pivot point close to the body and not necessarily releasing. I am curious as well if that pivot point is kept until contact or if we should be trying to extend the hands from the body, lagging the barrel and getting more whip than rotational.

I have always thought bat lag was bad, but the more i look, it seems necessary to get the needed bat speed. And if you are already on path then the whip happens in the same path.

 

[2br02b]

I don't understand where in the swing lag occurs. Is lag occurring between the launch of the swing and the pivot?

Does the pivot end lag?

 

[fanboi22]

I don't understand where in the swing lag occurs. Is lag occurring between the launch of the swing and the pivot?

Does the pivot end lag?

i suppose it depends on your definition of launch and pivot. What i think as launch is when the swing starts, ie the first frame of a swing if you talk about a 5 frame swing. Any tip and doen't count, only when the lower and upper body engines start.

Some believe that the 'lauch' is sometime downstream when the hands 'release' the barrel into contact.

As far as the pivot, i see it as the hand pivot point by the shoulder when the swing launches (my launch.) So for me the launch starts the swing with a hand pivot point as the body turns on plane........this then is my question.

Is the pivot a rigid pivot trying to keep the barrel accelerating on an arc outside the hands. Or is it a loose pivot where the top wrist flexes (i do not know the correct terminology) to create a lesser angle 'V' with barrel and forearm.

If it is a rigid pivot (sort of what i see in some demonstrations) then the barrel would always be a greater speed relative to the hands. In a loose wrist pivot, the lowering of the angle in the 'V' is where i am asking if there is bat lag. if there is, and the hands move forward, like the above bottom GIF, then the barrel can have the same speed as the hands until the hands get away from the body and start to release the wrists to whip the barrel out to contact.

My DD was considered rotational by some on the board here, and i am trying to understand why/how. I believe this concept of bat lag, is not a bad thing, but actually a requirement to a high level swing. and to get enough bat speed.

This does not preclude any of the ideas of getting on plane or an initial TTB to get the bat up to speed, but it makes me think of the drill in the hall of shame thread where they were hitting soft toss right next to a fence. I may have to rethink that there may be something there.

Again, i saw a Zepp video/article where it showed that low level younger swings never had the lag, and the barrel speed was always faster than the hands and accelerating up. The high level MLB player had lag and barrel speed the same or close to the same as hand speed until that whip action. I actually looked at some reading of my DD with a couple different swings and saw the same thing. The problem was i thought the correct approach was to TTB which created that around motion and always had the barrel accelerating faster.

i am thinking the bat lag is very important. This also then helps me understand when the Pro's say that they swing A to B. They probably do, but the sequence and body angles are already there and on plane when they lag the barrel A to B into whip and contact.

not sure if this makes sense.

 

[2br02b]

I would focus on the change in direction of the barrel (free hands) while the hands seek a hand pivot point.

What I took from TDS' post was that the hands move to a spot in space based on what the brain is telling them about the incoming pitch and create a pivot point at that spot.