Ground rule dobule.....triple?

[smddad]

Rules: NFHS

Standard 200' temp fence. Other than partial foul line fences, it's an open field. Ground rules were stated at plate meeting that if a ball rolls past the temp fence in foul territory, fielder raise their hands up.

Situation - Nobody on. Batter ropes a fair ball to right field, rolls over the foul line and beyond the 200' temp fence. PU moves up the line, close to 1st base. After the ball rolls foul, he raises his hands up and says, "Ground rule double!" RF never raised her hands to indicate that the ball rolled past the fence line. BR keeps going to 3rd.

After a conference, PU and BU rule that since RF did not raise her hands up, it was not a ground rule double and the ball was still in play. Therefore, they ruled a triple for the BR.

I think the umpire's kicked this one. First, the PU kills the play by ruling ground rule double and puts the defense in jeopardy by his call. 2nd, he saw the ball roll beyond the fence, and therefore, by rule, it's a double. 3rd, since when are the players on the field required to do the umpire's job?

Is there anything to support the umpire's ruling on this play?

Thoughts?

 

[Comp]

Players raising their hands means absolutely nothing and an umpire should not be basing their calls on some signal the defense may make. Watching for the ball going out of play is the umpires job, and if the umpire saw it roll into dead ball territory it should have been a ground rule double. No basis in the rules to award the runner 3rd because the defender "didn't raise their hands."

 

[Cowdogz]

Some of it may depend on the ground rules for the specific field. I've seen some fields with gaps in the fence, and it is a ground rule double if it goes through that gap, unless the fielder chases the ball past the fence, and then it is anything goes. But, I agree that if he called it a GRD and the defense let up, then the play should probably be dead.

 

[Comp]

If the ball goes past the outfield fence it is a dead ball period. If umpires and or leagues are keeping it live because a fielder chases after it they are making up their own rules.

 

[smddad]

Comp,

That is how I felt. I let the PU know he kicked that one, too. Normally I'm pretty good to the umpires, but I definitely felt he was making it up as he went along. After they were done playing, I informed the coach about using the words, "I protest your rules interpretation! "
But I definitely feel the guys and gals in blue shouldn't be having the girls help them with their calls.

 

[CJ D]

Comp, I've asked this specific question as you are putting it because we have run into the same situation several times at various parks...this is the way it has always been explained to me by the crews that we play with. Tell me if this makes sense to you (and in no way makes the play called in the OP valid)...

Ground rule double is called that because what it supposed to happen, is the base runner is awarded two bases beyond the base she had achieved once the ball leaves a fielders hand or goes out of play (girl approaching 1st when ball goes into dugout on overthrow goes to 2nd...3rd if she had already made it to first before fielder threw it and a late throw was made). Typically, the ball ia thrown before the runner reaches 1st. Anyway, being as it is 2 bases beyond what was achieved, working with a 2 man crew and poor facilities, it is difficult for them to be able to know for sure that the ball actually passed a fence and was out of play unless they are given some "help".....they don't run the parks, but are forced to work them...temp fences and all. If a girl continues to play the ball, they can only assume the ball isn't beyond the fence (it can be difficult with multiple runners on to see everything) and that they ball is still live. From the time they throw their hands up assuming ball is, in fact, dead, the runner is awarded two bases. So a ball winding beyond the fence into dead ball territory could actually be a "ground rule triple" had the girl rounded first before it occurred.

Now, this isn't to call into question, or validate the competency or lack thereof or a crew who calls it like this. But just how it has been explained.

 

[Comp]

You are mixing rules. A batted ball going out of play and a thrown ball going out of play are 2 completely different rules. A batted ball that goes out of play is a group d rule double. It makes no difference how long it takes to get past the fence. The runner could be rounding 3rd when the ball finally goes out, it is still a ground rule double. A thrown ball going out of play as stated is a different rule and is 2 bases from the last base touched from the time of the throw.

 

[CJ D]

As I said, this is what has been explained to me, not what my rule interpretation is. But question...if runner on 2nd, batter bounces over the fence, what base is runner on 2nd awarded? I'm just trying to ask for clarification...I (probably incorrectly), had always understood that once batter reached 1st base safely, she was then R1, and no longer batter. Am I just all jacked up in this?

 

[Comp]

A runner starting on 2nd on a ball bouncing over the fence for a ground rule double gets home. 2 bases just the same as the batter.

 

[BretMan]

Ground rule double is called that because what it supposed to happen, is the base runner is awarded two bases beyond the base she had achieved once the ball leaves a fielders hand or goes out of play...

For batted balls going out of play, the batter and all runners are awarded two bases, determined by which base was occupied at the time of the pitch, not by their location when the ball actually left the playing field.