Getting the Crow Hop call from a blue

[ifubuildit]

So what is this then?

YouTube - Jennie Finch Pitching4

 

[halskinner]

YouTube - Jennie Finch Pitching4

IP

Pivot foot is coming up and losing contact with the rubber, is is not being pulled forward. She has established a point of impetus (pivot point) that is not on the rubber. Her pivot point is now the dirt in front of the rubber.

Will they call that,,,,NOPE!

 

[Dave D]

Finch does get called for that short "slide forward" step, mostly in international games, and only a couple of times a game. She seems to do it noticeably on about 20% of her pitches when I've watched her on TV. My DD occasionally will take this short step, especially on chewed up pitching areas where there's a big hole in front of the rubber. I've seen it and pointed it out to her and she can generally stop it when she's aware that she's doing it.

I realize that the point of the OP is the second step aspect of the crow hop, and I agree with Hal that the last thing you want to say is "crow hop." Even with some of the ASA kids we see that have a very definite re-plant of the pivot foot (pushing off the ball of the foot), it's nearly impossible to get umps to make that call. I've tried the "two steps" approach, and haven't had that much success there, either.

So, if it's not generally going to get called, what should we coach our kids to do?

Here's my story:
Several years ago, I had a HS pitcher (went on to 4-year D1 ride) who was a bona fide "leaper." No crow hop, just lots of air. Local umps never called her on it because they said she was getting no advantage from the leap. I was a pretty inexperienced coach at the time, so when I asked her to work on eliminating the leap, her dad and PC brushed me aside and told her to keep doing it. Long story short, she DID ultimately get called for 3 IPs in one game. State quarterfinals. One run scored on the first IP call with a runner on third, their only runner of the game. We lose 1-0.

Even if I'm pretty sure that potential IPs won't be called, I ALWAYS push my pitchers to do it right and fix what's wrong so that they won't be surprised by an IP for "something she's never been called all season for."

 

[ifubuildit]

The rest of the story

On the particular day that I took those clips she did this on every pitch. They were playing team Canada that day and she came in to relieve Abbott in the middle of the game.

The other thing I noticed is because the USA pitchers were so big the chalk at the front of the pitching circle "Disappeared" during the course of the game. They were both striding outside of the circle.

It didnt get called either.

I love to watch Finch pitch because I feel she has the best mechanics of all the USA Pitchers and arguably the best ever. But I didnt like the fact that the umps were oblivious to her bending the rules.

She is Americas softball queen right now but rules are rules.

Dana.

 

[halskinner]

On the particular day that I took those clips she did this on every pitch. They were playing team Canada that day and she came in to relieve Abbott in the middle of the game.

The other thing I noticed is because the USA pitchers were so big the chalk at the front of the pitching circle "Disappeared" during the course of the game. They were both striding outside of the circle.

It didnt get called either.

I love to watch Finch pitch because I feel she has the best mechanics of all the USA Pitchers and arguably the best ever. But I didnt like the fact that the umps were oblivious to her bending the rules.

She is Americas softball queen right now but rules are rules.

Dana.

Hey Dana, There is no rule I am aware of that requires a pitcher to stay inside the circle.

The painted circle is there to facilitate the 'Look back rule'. When the ball is returned to the pitcher AND THE PITCHER IS INSIDE THE CIRCLE, the runner must immediately advance to the next base or return to the last one. That is the only function of that circle.

The circle also provides a gauge for onlookers to see how far a pitcher IS striding out but, that is not it's official function.

I have seen MANY pitchers that landed on the edge of the circle and even slightly past it.

 

[ifubuildit]

Hal

I was told by a UIC it was a rule but around here that doesnt mean much. Not the first time I have been advised wrong by an umpire. Same guy called one of my pitchers last night for placing her front foot heel on the front edge in the middle of the pitching plate. Told her it was illegal because her foot lifted off the rubber before she released the ball as she strided out.

I love the men in blue at times.

Dana.

 

[halskinner]

I was told by a UIC it was a rule but around here that doesnt mean much. Not the first time I have been advised wrong by an umpire. Same guy called one of my pitchers last night for placing her front foot heel on the front edge in the middle of the pitching plate. Told her it was illegal because her foot lifted off the rubber before she released the ball as she strided out.

I love the men in blue at times.

Dana.

Any TD or UIC of a tourny or league can add/ omit/ amend any rule they want and that might be your case.

The umpire was correct in saying it was wrong but it sounds like he explained why incorrectly.

The rulebook say you must push off from the pitchers plate. Both feet also must also start on the rubber. The shoe must be ON the top of the rubber and if it against the front of the rubber, it is against the rubber and not ON the rubber. The front edge of the rubber is where your pivot point is supposed to be that way, if your heel comes up, you are still pushing off from the rubber andnotthe dirt somewhere in front of the rubber.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

In practice, it is almost impossible to have the pivot on the front side of the rubber without being "On" part of the top of the rubber. In ifubuildit's example, IMO she was "On" the rubber as she pushed off. My DD pitches with the pivot foot (front 1/3 of the cleat on the front bottom of the right shoe (i.e. roughly the pad of foot to toes) touching both the dirt and the rubber. It's impossible for her to push off with the pivot foot without the cleats touching both the TOP and side of the rubber simultaneously. Now if there is a big hole in front of the rubber, it could happen that the pitcher is ONLY pushing off from the side of the rubber but most P's will fill-in the hole to their liking before they pitch.

 

[Hillhouse]

On the particular day that I took those clips she did this on every pitch. They were playing team Canada that day and she came in to relieve Abbott in the middle of the game.

The other thing I noticed is because the USA pitchers were so big the chalk at the front of the pitching circle "Disappeared" during the course of the game. They were both striding outside of the circle.

It didnt get called either.

I love to watch Finch pitch because I feel she has the best mechanics of all the USA Pitchers and arguably the best ever. But I didnt like the fact that the umps were oblivious to her bending the rules.

She is Americas softball queen right now but rules are rules.

Dana.

Dana..

It's funny that you say this. I personally think Finch has the WORST mechanics of the 3 US women's Pitchers (herself, Abbot and Osterman). Abbott is #2. But their size allows for them to get away with things that a 5'5" pitcher could not. Pure leverage. I don't think for a second she (Finch) is better than Tincher but Tincher doesn't sell as many jerseys and posters and didn't go to Arizona.

By the way, Hal is right... the circle provides no service except for the pitcher "look back rule" regarding baserunners. It also adds some design to the field for decoration. But that's about it.

Bill

 

[ifubuildit]

Bill

Good. Then we will have something to talk about again the next time your down here. Looking forward to your next visit.

Dana.