Early bat speed.

[rdbass]

 

[Wellphyt]

This view of Manny really helped me to figure out how the best hitters torque the handle at swing initiation. Watch his top hand torque the handle...watch his back elbow work underneath.



Manny is doing the same thing as Ted, Ruth and Gehrig. Manny is just doing it with his bat already close to flat. The reason I used Williams, Gehrig and Ruth is because they started with vertical bats. Vertical bat handsets make it easier to see the flattening move because there is MORE FLATTENING TO DO. The further you move away from a vertical bat handset in your stance the less flattening you have to do. Manny has a very flat barrel when his back elbow gets to max elevation as he does his initial load. To the untrained eye it looks like he is doing something different than Ted. The reality is that Manny is already close to flat at swing initiation whereas Ted is more vertical.

Throw a bat through the air half way up the net at the back of a cage using Ted's style, and then using Manny's style. It's the same exact torquing action from different handsets.

The absolute best way to avoid getting confused by the various styles used by hitters is to adopt the throwing model as a blueprint. The throwing model can be adapted to any style with ease.

 

[rdbass]

Thanks Noontime.

 

[redhotcoach]

This view of Manny really helped me to figure out how the best hitters torque the handle at swing initiation. Watch his top hand torque the handle...watch his back elbow work underneath.



Manny is doing the same thing as Ted, Ruth and Gehrig. Manny is just doing it with his bat already close to flat. The reason I used Williams, Gehrig and Ruth is because they started with vertical bats. Vertical bat handsets make it easier to see the flattening move because there is MORE FLATTENING TO DO. The further you move away from a vertical bat handset in your stance the less flattening you have to do. Manny has a very flat barrel when his back elbow gets to max elevation as he does his initial load. To the untrained eye it looks like he is doing something different than Ted. The reality is that Manny is already close to flat at swing initiation whereas Ted is more vertical.

Throw a bat through the air half way up the net at the back of a cage using Ted's style, and then using Manny's style. It's the same exact torquing action from different handsets.

The absolute best way to avoid getting confused by the various styles used by hitters is to adopt the throwing model as a blueprint. The throwing model can be adapted to any style with ease.

Nice clip.

 

[redhotcoach]

Thanks Noontime.

His barrel is behind his head when you can see he launches it. No way could he catch the pitch with out forearms and hands turning the bat.

 

[rdbass]

I stare at the rear red wristband,it seems to 'slot' before the hands/forearms turn. To me it looks like Manny gets to the position that Yeager speaks of.

 

[HYP]

The top hand and back arm work like this;

in layman's terms it's like hammering a nail, as far as the forearm and wrist are concerned. You start a hammering direction at about a 45 degree angle after your back elbow drops. The direction changes to a horizontal, as your shoulders rotate and your forearm uncocks at the elbow. There is no deliberate twisting of the wrist.

in technical bio-mechanical terms; the forearm extends at the elbow as you ulnar deviate with the wrist. The wrist will supinate due to the momentum and force of the barrel whipping down and around. There is no deliberate force from the supinator muscles, making the wrist supinate. In fact, MLB hitters are trying not to supinate. Supinating would drop the barrel, and they TRY not to do that.

They do not force the barrel down toward the catcher's head. They think of throwing it at the ball, and the barrel goes down and out at the ball. Due to geometry, the barrel visually arcs rearward, but the direction of the force; is down and out. Down toward the ball, (not the catcher) and out from the body on a downward plane. The plane changes as the torso rotates, after the back shoulder drops.

Any where in my question did I mention throwing the barrel at the catchers head? Simple question. Once the elbow is down and the palm is facing the pitcher, does the palm ever get flat (face the sky) and then continue around to face the hitter?

 

[Wellphyt]

One of the things that I always appreciated about Epstein was his emphasis on learning the difference between style and technique. If you're going to teach hitting you really need to understand how players wrap their individual style around the technique part of the swing. There is a torquing action applied by the hands to the handle at swing initiation that is an absolute. The direction of torque that gets applied to the handle by the hands is critical.

Most instructors and coaches in my area don't put in the effort to understand the nuances between various hitting styles. What they do instead is to DICTATE to players what their style is going to be in an attempt to COPY THE LOOK OF A HIGH LEVEL SWING. I thought this only occurred in fastpitch, but I'm finding out that it's every bit as rampant in baseball.

If you're going to teach hitting, I would highly recommend that you study the nuances of various hitting styles. It will decrease the chances of you taking your dd down the wrong path. Take Manny's swing as an example. Manny uses a style where he holds his hands around shoulder height, with a raised rear elbow, with the bat angled behind his head. This style positions his front forearm up at letter height. As he initiates his swing, his rear elbow will move a lot because it has a long ways to go to get slotted down to his side. Remember...slotting the rear elbow is an absolute.

As the back elbow lowers, watch how little his front forearm/elbow moves up off his chest. The reason his front forward/elbow doesn't move as much as his back elbow is because his front forearm is already close to being max up off his chest when he loads his hands due to his style choice. Remember...the universal launch position has the hands at the back shoulder...the back elbow slotted to the side...the front forearm max up off the chest...and the barrel pointed back behind the hitter (not bopping the catcher on the head).

(See Manny on lower right)


When viewing Manny's swing, it's important to understand that his hands do not move away from his back shoulder AS HIS BACK ELBOW LOWERS. Any forward movement of the hands that takes place during the lowering of the back elbow is due to upper torso rotation. The hands will always stay connected at the back shoulder AS THE BACK ELBOW LOWERS AND THE FRONT FOREARM LIFTS UP OFF THE CHEST. If the player has a style where the front forearm is already up off the chest in their stance/load, then the back elbow will move a lot and front forearm will move very little. What you have to understand when viewing players using this type style, is that they don't just lower their back elbow like they are flapping their arm like a bird. Their back elbow is lowering in RESPONSE TO WHAT THEIR TOP HAND IS DOING. They are applying torque on the handle in a direction that is perpendicular to the pitch...NOT PARALLEL TO THE PITCH.

This is why I don't like that contraption that attaches to the elbows. The elbows work together, but they also work independently...they work in different planes and one elbow can move more than the other depending on the hitter's style.

Manny TORQUES THE HANDLE in the same direction as Williams. The difference is that Manny has a style that reduces the visible amount of CARVING action...because he starts with a flatter barrel. Manny's style choice has been known to confuse supposed hitting gurus.

The basic principle to understand is that all hitters have to flatten the barrel to the swing plane. Many hitters choose to start with a flatter barrel in their stance. Williams said he used to flatten the barrel some in his stance when facing a pitcher with a really good fastball in order to be quicker.

If you believe Manny is doing the ferris wheel thing, then you are really missing one of the most important absolutes of the swing.

 

[Wellphyt]

When looking at Manny in the universal launch position; ask yourself how he gets the barrel from behind his head to a position where it is pointing BEHIND HIM (not bopping the catcher on the head) while keeping his hands at his back shoulder? Clue...the shoulder joint is a ball-and-socket. It can do way more than just lift and lower the elbow.

Can you throw a ball by just lifting and lower your elbow...no turning motion allowed? Why do we think hitting is any different?

 

[jbooth]

Simple question. Once the elbow is down and the palm is facing the pitcher, does the palm ever get flat (face the sky) and then continue around to face the hitter?

Simple answer; YES.

Simple question; do you believe that the bio-mechanics and forces involved, are different from what I described?