Early bat speed.

[HYP]

This is what caused me to reactivate this thread. I certainly see that Mankin's clips match up to what he is saying, but I see Cabrera doing something different, he does not have that same rearward angle at the slot position.

So... two ways can be effective IMO....I will choose Cabrera

I hate to use the term "slow to fast", because I believe its more medium to fast. You have one moment within the swing to totally let it go, to really accelerate the bat head (whip/hands). If you blow your wad going rearward you will have nothing when you turn the corner, you will lose your ability to whip. This does not mean the bat is not accelerating rearward, this does not mean it will not blur.

And getting back to what this discussion is about.... I still believe the first milliseconds the hands are starting to swivel and the bat is not going at 100% speed as mentioned by RHC.

Question: Does the bat head blur rearward on a check swing?

FFS: I understand the elbow, this is not what we are talking about.

Not sure what you mean by same rearward angle at slot position. Actually I personally never name or try to achieve positions in a swing. Like slot position or truth position....not to say it doesn't work for some.

Here are some more Miggy that hopefully aren't quite as inside.

Not launching rearward? ^^^^^ok

IMO, he is great at maintaining a loaded barrel until it is time to release. His barrel stays loaded as his lead hand fights to get inside. He then throws the S*** out of it, with direction, through the ball.

So, I guess you could say deep is relative and dependent upon pitch location. I sometimes use with my players that the barrel stays loaded until the hands "see" the ball and then the top hand throws the barrel through the ball. On an inside pitch the barrel will stay loaded longer because the hands have farther to travel before they "see" the ball.

That is what I think Miggy does very well.

 

[HYP]

You clearly do not understand what body actions are making the barrel move from where your vids start, and where they end.

I know you think they are applying rearward force with their hands, but they are not. I don't care whether you ever figure out the truth. But, instead of staying off this board, I will continue to try to convey the facts to people who have a little better comprehension than you.

If you had any knowledge of some physics terms, such as; angular momentum, centripetal force and tangential acceleration, you would understand why what you believe is false. But, since those terms and how they apply to the swing, are unknown to you, you are unable to see the flaws in your theory.

Jim,

Once the elbow is down and the palm is still facing the pitcher. Does the top hand flatten out? Is it applying force? In what direction does the barrel go? It does go back but I also understand that it is moving forward in the arc.

 

[HYP]

I've been trying to understand both sides in hopes that folks are saying the same thing using different words... but, this last section of jbooth's statement clarified that jbooth doesn't get it! looking closely at the AROD clip and looking closely at his hands how can he possibly throw the barrel at the ball while keeping his hands back while the barrel is still pointed up unless he's torques the bat with his hands in a fashion that makes the barrel go backwards???? LOOK closely at his top hand you will see a change in the tension at his thumb as his top hand pulls in the opposite direction of his bottom hand. LOOK at his bottom hand as it works in the opposite direction of his top hand!!...All that happens as his back elbow is slotting. All that is happening BEFORE his hands or the barrel moves forward at all. INSANITY!

Bold: I noticed this as well. Good catch

 

[HYP]

There is no "push" if you mean, push the hands forward by extending the elbow. The bat is whipped forward. The elbow stays flexed. It is accelerated by centripetal force, not by a linear push.

As the shoulders rotate, the hands arc around the body and the barrel of the bat goes off on a tangent. It's called tangential acceleration as the barrel tries to follow the same path as the handle. Note how Ted keeps his back elbow bent and at his side. He isn't pushing the hands at the ball. They internally rotate. He does snap his wrists to add to the tangential acceleration. He said he did. He said he threw the bat like swinging an axe.

How long does he keep the barrel above the hands?

 

[jbooth]

How long does he keep the barrel above the hands?

Hard to tell from this angle. But, until about the point where the bat is parallel with the plate.

What's your point? What part of what I have stated previously in this thread are you failing to comprehend this time?

I respect you, but every time we have a discussion, you seem to fail to understand what I'm describing.

 

[jbooth]

Jim,

Once the elbow is down and the palm is still facing the pitcher. Does the top hand flatten out? Is it applying force? In what direction does the barrel go? It does go back but I also understand that it is moving forward in the arc.

The top hand and back arm work like this;

in layman's terms it's like hammering a nail, as far as the forearm and wrist are concerned. You start a hammering direction at about a 45 degree angle after your back elbow drops. The direction changes to a horizontal, as your shoulders rotate and your forearm uncocks at the elbow. There is no deliberate twisting of the wrist.

in technical bio-mechanical terms; the forearm extends at the elbow as you ulnar deviate with the wrist. The wrist will supinate due to the momentum and force of the barrel whipping down and around. There is no deliberate force from the supinator muscles, making the wrist supinate. In fact, MLB hitters are trying not to supinate. Supinating would drop the barrel, and they TRY not to do that.

They do not force the barrel down toward the catcher's head. They think of throwing it at the ball, and the barrel goes down and out at the ball. Due to geometry, the barrel visually arcs rearward, but the direction of the force; is down and out. Down toward the ball, (not the catcher) and out from the body on a downward plane. The plane changes as the torso rotates, after the back shoulder drops.

 

[pstein]

I feel like this is the thread that will never die.

 

[Wellphyt]

You have to have a change in direction to create whip. Here is the straight-a-way before the corner. The carve before the filet (thank you boardmember).




Some players do it better than others. Many of the old timers had it perfected. Most kids I see...fastpitch and baseball...swing in a circle. I'm working with more baseball players now, and the boys are getting the "carve" action coached out of them just like the girls. I know a freshman baseball player who "carves" naturally, and is having it coached out of him by his new travel team's hitting coach. He is now starting to swing in a circle...no change in direction...no whip.

 

[Wellphyt]

What direction is Ted's barrel pointing when the clip pauses? Has Ted's barrel or hands moved towards the pitch when he "carves"? Is his barrel bopping the catcher on the head at the pause? Go swing an ax into a tree. Pay attention to what your back arm does at the top of your back swing as you transition from swinging the ax back to swinging it forward. NO...you do not have to use an ax...you can simulate the ax swing motion using a bat...see Mel Ott.

 

[Wellphyt]

Here is a Ruth check swing. Pause the clip at the end of the check swing. What direction is the barrel pointing?