Didn't see the run score

[Eric F]

One of the problems I see here is that 1st base was occupied by a baserunner with less than two outs and therefore this is no "dropped 3rd strike" situation, the batter would just be out. DTS is only in effect when 1st base is occupied with 2 outs. So not only did she not know the count (only 2 strikes), she also didn't know the situation that she shouldn't be running to 1st base because it was occupied.

I will agree that the plan to have them run to 1B on every strike 3 isn't perfect. In this case, some earlier intervention by the 1B coach might have been helpful.

 

[Rocketech1]

I will agree that the plan to have them run to 1B on every strike 3 isn't perfect. In this case, some earlier intervention by the 1B coach might have been helpful.

10U is that interesting age where you have to continually remind the players of the situation. We used to have our 3rd base coach flash two fingers after giving the batting sign to indicate if it was a DTS situation, but not verbally to alert the catcher of the fact. Conversely, in 12U travel ball, there are a lot less DTS for a number of reasons (e.g. fewer strikeouts, better catchers, better pitchers not throwing passed balls/wild pitches with two strikes, etc.).

 

[eddieq]

Had this one tonight, runner took her lead from first with 1 out, batter K's, catcher didn't catch the ball cleanly and the batter took off. The catcher knew the situation and threw down to second without hesitation. Ball got away from the shortstop and the runner was safe, but they knew what was going on.

My partner and I had to explain that the seemingly safe at first batter is out, though. There's always someone

 

[Sparky Guy]

My partner and I had to explain that the seemingly safe at first batter is out, though. There's always someone

You always get the argument that the runner was off of 1st base with her leadoff on the pitch so the base was not occupied. Need to add that one to the softball rule myths.

 

[Umpire]

I agree that the coaches need to teach the players, especially 10U, how to play the game properly. But if you assume this was an honest mistake by the batter/baserunner, I don't see how the coaches, during the play could do much to help. For example, the batter/baserunner takes off for 1st base simultaneously, B2 heads to 2B (maybe it was a straight steal or hit and run, or the baserunner thought she was being forced? We don't have enough information to say definitively?). The defense makes a play at 2B, so if I'm the 3rd base coach with a runner on third in a tie game, I am sending her home if I think she can make it safely.

I could be wrong, but I took your post ("were the coaches acting sportsmanlike/ethical") as suggesting that this was an intentional play devised by the coaches to get the defense to erroneously throw the ball to 1B or 2B to allow the baserunner on 3B to score? I didn't see anything in the original facts to suggest this was intentional. You need to remember that this is 10U and most of the these players (and coaches) do not have a lot of experience with the Dropped Third Strike rules. At that age, we coaches were constantly reminding both our catchers and batters what the count was and what to do re: DTS. It's not an easy concept for 9 and 10YO to understand.

I was not implying that this was a set play. When the batter ran, it was up to the offensive coaches to yell, "That's only two on you" or "You can't run here" or anything along those lines. They did nothing. Nothing = wrong.

I would have handled things differently as an umpire; that's without a doubt. But the umpire's ultimate blunder was the result of unacceptable coaching on many levels. Especially at the 10u, the coaches need to prevent players from doing things that aren't permitted by rule. They failed here.

The point I'm stressing is that the umpires only had an opportunity to screw up because the teams, coaches and players screwed up. If they get their act together, it never comes down to blaming an umpire. As an aside, the post presumes that the umpire missed the play. Who's to say that the person who was negatively affected by the call has a clear perspective with regard to what actually transpired?

 

[Eric F]

As an aside, the post presumes that the umpire missed the play. Who's to say that the person who was negatively affected by the call has a clear perspective with regard to what actually transpired?

The only thing I stated that I thought the umps "missed" was the tag at 2B. I had a different angle, and she looked pretty clearly safe to me. I can accept that the ump saw it differently, and I'm willing to accept that one without argument. Those plays happen all the time. As for the run scoring because the ump didn't see it, I'm not presuming anything. The PU stated that he didn't see the run score, so it doesn't count. That, more than anything else in this situation, was the most frustrating. Even accepting the calls of B-R being out on "misconduct" (out #2), and the tag on the runner at 2B (out #3), the run should count.

You have a (potentially) valid point about perspective. Of course, I wanted my DD's team to have gotten the advantage in the situation. That said, in talking with a coach from the opposing team later in the day, he agreed that the umps decisions on that situation were ridiculous. However, since it benefited his team, he kept his mouth shut. As would I.

Another decision that could have been made...

It's a mistake by a young player. Let's reset and try again. All runners back to their bases. No outs on the play. 2 strikes on the batter. Play ball...

 

[dbronstein]

This is why I hate all these rec leagues advancing tbe rules so quicky. Stealing un 10U is a joke - there wasn't one catcher who could make the throw to second. Even in 12U I've only seen one catcher that could do it, and even she would need a slow runner to get a bad jump to have have a shot at an out. You spend all this time working one situational fielding and running and never have have a chance to do it in games because every time at runner gets on they just steal their way around. And dropped tbird strikes are the worst. It prevents you from playing inexperienced catchers because you can't afford to risk losing outs when soapy pitchers struggle to throw strikes to begin with.

 

[Rocketech1]

This is why I hate all these rec leagues advancing tbe rules so quicky. Stealing un 10U is a joke - there wasn't one catcher who could make the throw to second.

If you think fastpitch is bad with 10U stealing, what about my DS baseball rules in Mustang (8 & 9yos) where the runners can lead-off and steal on 60 foot base paths. The baserunner is 20 feet off the bag before the pitcher even releases the ball! In 2 pitches any runner on 1st base is on 3rd base. At least they made home plate cold and you can't steal on a passed ball/wild pitch

 

[dbronstein]

I agree, baseball is worse. I've been coaching DS' team the last few years, and our league (rec) starts full leading and stealing at 11U with 70-foot bases. Every kid who got on first was on third two pitches later, and almost always ended up scoring on a wild pitch. And the catchers aren't good enough to be playing with dropped third strikes. We just finished the 13/14U season with 80 foot bases, and the extra 10 feet helps cut down the steals of third a little, but the catchers still can't make the throw to second. The other problem with this idiocy is completely bogs down the games because the pitchers are always throwing over to first and screwing around with the runners. With a 1:45 game time (finish the last inning), we usually only get through 4 innings. We had a few games go 5, but not very many. In 11U, a lot of times we only played three innings. When I played regular little league rules when I was 11 and 12, we'd always get through 6 innings in two hours or less because the pitchers just pitched the ball instead of messing around with the runners, and you didn't have the extra outs added from dropped third strikes.

 

[CJ D]

In our local rec league, the runner can't lead off the base until the ball has passed home plate. Cut back on it some, but yeah, the rec girls generally don't have the arms to throw them out. However, there's nothing worse than having a girl come into middle school in the 7th grade and want to play school ball and she doesn't know the rules because the rec league doesn't play by actual rules. At some point you have to actually teach them the game. 13-14 years old is way past time for that.

And not to question anyone's coaching style, but if there are girls who can't make the throws required to the bases, time spent on situations is wasted time. It does zero good for a girl to know how to turn a double play, or to check a runner on 3rd base if she can't field the ball and make an accurate throw.