Did I make the right call?

[GI Tom]

ASA rules. 16U. I'm the BU, no one on, 2 outs. Ground ball hit to LC and Batter-Runner attempts to stretch it into triple. I had button hooked inside was following batter runner around. She gets in a run down between 2 and 3, at one point, the SS finally chases her down and while lunging for her tags her cleanly and squarely on the back. During the lunge, the SS lost her footing. When the SS hits the ground, the ball comes loose. She had full and complete posession of it until that point in her closed glove. I would estimate this at about 1.5-2 seconds after she made the tag.

I called runner out.

Interested to hear what your thoughts are from another umpire perspective or a coach perspective.

Discussed this at length afterwards and realized there are alot of differing opinions on this matter.

 

[quincy]

From a coach’s perspective you made the right call. This isn’t football.

I would be surprised about 1.5 – 2 seconds that can be an eternity.

 

[GI Tom]

From a coach’s perspective you made the right call. This isn’t football.

I would be surprised about 1.5 – 2 seconds that can be an eternity.

To further clarify, she bounced with her knee, then laid out and as the glove bounced on the ground, the ball came loose then. So it wasn't a lunge and straight to the ground.

 

[honus14]

I have an out here. It's not like a catch, where by rule if you fall and lose the ball, it's no catch. Look at the definition of TAG in, for example, ASA. The definition only requires control while touching the runner. If the ball comes out during the tag, that's evidence that she wasn't controlling it, but in your situation, it sounds like there was control until she fell.

 

[MTR]

I'll pile on here and agree. There is no rule requiring a fielder to "complete" a play. As long as, in your judgment, the fielder had complete control of the ball through the act of making the tag, the runner should be ruled out.

 

[GI Tom]

The only argument I was given that made me question my call was "What if the same thing happened to a catcher at the plate?" I.E., catcher gets hit, has full posession of the ball until she lands on ground and then it bounces out. The 'ol' "Show me the ball" question comes to mind.

 

[Pizmaster]

The runner is indeed out. No question there if the fielder had complete control of the ball upon making the tag and the tag was not what caused the ball to come loose.

Pretty much the same applies for the call at home plate as long as the collision does not cause the ball to come loose. However, if the umpire is out of position and requires the catcher to "show him the ball" then the runner would be considered safe (because the catcher cannot produce the ball in glove).

 

[quincy]

As you know the correct answer is it depends. Was our Team up to bat?

You had the call right.

 

[honus14]

"Show me the ball" is checking to see whether possession was lost during the tag itself. If possession is lost during the tag, as I said before, that's evidence that the ball wasn't controlled. If I see possession during the tag, and I see the ball come out when the catcher hits the ground AFTER the tag, I've still got an out. (Sell it - "Out! OUT! SHE'S STILL OUT!")

 

[buckgeno]

Just to echo what has already been stated here...
Possession is required "through the play" for a catch, but not a tag. You made the correct call.

Discussed this at length afterwards and realized there are a lot of differing opinions on this matter.

There's only one opinion that mattered during the play - yours. And you made the correct call (based on your description of the play).