Detachment and timing. Is 3:00 absolute?

[ArmWhip]

I feel that ball position at point of detachment is very much misunderstood and is generally considered a 'cause' rather than the 'effect' that it actually is. What is never taken into account is the speed of the ball/hand in the arc from 3 o'clock to the preferred 10 o'clock position at the stride foot landing. Being at 10 o'clock at landing is the important position, where the ball is at point of detachment is determined by how quickly the ball/hand is moving. So high level pitchers have to have the ball at 3 o'clock when they detach or else it will be past 10 o'clock at foot plant because it is moving through the arc so quickly. A less accomplished pitcher will have the ball at noon or 1 o'clock at detachment in order to get it to the 10 o'clock position at foot plant because of her slower arm circle speed. If you force a pitcher with a limited arm speed to detach at the 3 o'clock position when she gets to foot plant the ball may only at the noon position. So having the ball at 3 o'clock when you detach is an effect of superior hand/ball/arm speed and not a cause as is often thought.

To simplify it pitchers with slower hand/ball/arm speed will detach later, pitchers with higher hand/ball/arm speed will detach earlier. I don't think you can increase a pitcher's speed by forcing her to detach earlier, point of detachment is an effect not a cause.

The differences in ball position at detachment among elite pitchers probably results from where in the circle they get their acceleration. The later in the circle they accelerate the ball the later they will be at point of detachment.

 

[riseball]

I am thinking that 3:00 is more of a best practice and a great starting point but not an absolute. For most pitcher it will work just fine while others may benefit from something different. Jake had some different things in her mechanics that drove me nuts but in the end she made it all work pretty well. To me this just another check point on the way to the main event which is the release. Regardless if the detach at 3:00 or 1:00 if they can get the 4 points firmed before release things are usually going pretty well.

 

[Ken B]

I couldn't see the Ricketts shots, so I'm adding this one for reference:



Detachment at 3 generally represents a significant jump in efficiency from the typical 12 o'clock. My estimate is 4-5 MPH difference on average between the two.

 

[STRIKE3]

I couldn't see the Ricketts shots, so I'm adding this one for reference:

View attachment 13758

Detachment at 3 generally represents a significant jump in efficiency from the typical 12 o'clock. My estimate is 4-5 MPH difference on average between the two.

Thanks Ken and sorry you couldn't see the pics. Not sure why that would be as they seem pretty clear but I will post another one. Interesting in the photo you posted where her arm is as her foot is right there at detachment and the one I posted her foot still has a ways to go from detachment and her arm is pretty far past 3.

So quick question Ken and just want to make sure I understand what you are saying... Take the Brooke Vestal example or even the Jake Elliott example, I am hoping you can see them okay. They are both are past 3. Are you saying they would increase velocity more (4-5 MPH) if they had true detachment at 3? Just trying to comfirm what you are stating.

Thanks!

 

[Rosey]

I never thought about the arm speed from 3-10. I'm going to have to rethink some of the slides in my seminar.

 

[Rosey]

Also, all of the pitchers that I looked at that have a replant (even slight like Cat) I noticed they detached early. I haven't looked at that many though. Curious if anyone else has.

 

[Ken B]

Generally, you will see a jump in speed from those with the timing/sequence to be able to detach at 3. Replanters use different timing/sequence.

 

[STRIKE3]

I never thought about the arm speed from 3-10. I'm going to have to rethink some of the slides in my seminar. View attachment 13760

Thanks for posting Rosey! very cool slide of pics on this topic!

 

[STRIKE3]

The replant is a whole other animal but I am glad Rosey brought it up. I have studied detachment on the replant quite in depth as well but won't go into too much detail on this thread with it. But will say a replanter hops, jumps, skips, whatever you want to call it to another push point or a second rubber if you will and pushes again. So detachment from the actual rubber is not where I look at it but from the second push point. So Barnhill above is 5:00 from actual rubber but her second detachement is around 10:00 on her second push.

Speaking of replanters, saw a few yesterday on the first day of ESPN Plus televised games. Man it is fun watching college ball again!

 

[STRIKE3]

I feel that ball position at point of detachment is very much misunderstood and is generally considered a 'cause' rather than the 'effect' that it actually is. What is never taken into account is the speed of the ball/hand in the arc from 3 o'clock to the preferred 10 o'clock position at the stride foot landing. Being at 10 o'clock at landing is the important position, where the ball is at point of detachment is determined by how quickly the ball/hand is moving. So high level pitchers have to have the ball at 3 o'clock when they detach or else it will be past 10 o'clock at foot plant because it is moving through the arc so quickly. A less accomplished pitcher will have the ball at noon or 1 o'clock at detachment in order to get it to the 10 o'clock position at foot plant because of her slower arm circle speed. If you force a pitcher with a limited arm speed to detach at the 3 o'clock position when she gets to foot plant the ball may only at the noon position. So having the ball at 3 o'clock when you detach is an effect of superior hand/ball/arm speed and not a cause as is often thought.

To simplify it pitchers with slower hand/ball/arm speed will detach later, pitchers with higher hand/ball/arm speed will detach earlier. I don't think you can increase a pitcher's speed by forcing her to detach earlier, point of detachment is an effect not a cause.

The differences in ball position at detachment among elite pitchers probably results from where in the circle they get their acceleration. The later in the circle they accelerate the ball the later they will be at point of detachment.

Thanks for posting ArmWhip and very valuable information IMHO!