Cuurveball advice

[GOINGDEEP]

One of the key points I think most miss on curves or screws is that are not just intended as a swing and miss strike. As your DD's get older and play against better and better hitters you have to use your head a little more. Knowing that your pitcher is getting more advanced but also are the batters. Youre going to see fewer K's than you did at 10-14u.

Mine is a LH pitcher but I'm going to reverse my example since most are RH. So hope this comes out right.

Curves/screws can be used for more than just the one out at the plate. Runner on 1st ( outside curve coming ). I'm wanting to keep the ball mid to right field to get the advancing runner or a double play. ( because batter will have to be dead on or hit before the break, if not it's usually coming off the end of the bat with no power to the right infield.......... if she tries to pull it, it's going to be a slow roller to SS )

Runner in scoring position ( screws coming ). I want the hit on left field for same as listed above. A true good screw will jam most ( or should at least ) resulting in weak bat handle hits.

I'll agree with most of the PC on here, if they are not breaking they WILL get hammered. Personally the screw is my DD's bread n butter, but she is a lefty and I can't explain it any better than......... it really works for her.

I've seen a ton of RH pitchers, but very few that had a screw that really "danced". But the ones that did were a pleasure to watch.

 

[starsnuffer]

I've never been a big fan of the curve-ball. Can you explain to me the benefit of a curve-ball over a curve-drop (slider, cutter) or a curve-rise?

A drop-curve is on the plane of the bat-swing for a right handed batter. A regular curve low in the zone is not. That means it's more likely for the batter to "miss" the curve then the drop curve.

Drop curves have their place, especially against lefty slappers, but when you want to reset a RHB batter to come inside (with a drop or a rise, for instance) , I feel a regular is more useful. Most of the time, the drop curve comes from a failed attempt to learn a roll-over drop. Some pitchers, like Hillhouse, will just modify the rise or the drop to cut inside or outside by using finger pressure, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

-W

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Starsnuffer ... what you say makes sense ... that being that a curve-drop could potentially be on plane with a batter's diagonal swing plane. Appreciate the description. My personal experience has been that a curve-drop has been more effective ... maybe something I'll have to revisit.

 

[Steve Huff]

I just think with her speed, her curve is going to be basically an outside fastball right now. She can throw an outside fastball right now and put it off the plate.

And her screw ball is going to basically be a blazing inside fastball?

I don't mean to rain or reign in on anyone's parade, but I categorize pitches as follows. "Foundational" and "Supplemental" or secondary pitches. A drop-ball, a rise-ball for some, or a good hard low outside fastball at the knees can be foundational pitches. I have seen one pitcher in college ball who had a curve-ball as a foundational pitch. But I don't consider a change-up, a curve-ball, or a screw-ball as a foundational pitch. Which leads me to my main point. You can't set batters up helter-skelter by throwing mixed garbage at the plate. I think too many coaches teach too many pitches to too many young girls. If your pitcher can't throw 75-80% first strikes with a foundational pitch, then why is she learning other pitches. More basically, if she can't hit the corners with a fastball 75-80% of the time, why is she learning anything other than a change-up. If supposed coaches are so good, then how is it that their pitchers are missing so much. If your pitcher is walking three or more batters a game, then perhaps her mechanics taught by her fine coaches need a little more tuning!

Personally I would never teach a girl two pitches at one time, and if she doesn't have control of one, then adding another does little to develop her. I teach a student from where she is at! Not where I want her to be. Walk, then run, and don't expect a world record before you get there.

At age 14 and 15 I thought Amanda Freed was going to be the best pitcher out of her and Jennie Finch. Amanda I thought threw some better moving pitches. In college she threw everything in the book. Her control wasn't that great, and she didn't master enough of her pitches. The second best pitcher, Jennie Finch, with less of a repertoire passed her up!

 

[Jojo]

And her screw ball is going to basically be a blazing inside fastball?

I don't mean to rain or reign in on anyone's parade, but I categorize pitches as follows. "Foundational" and "Supplemental" or secondary pitches. A drop-ball, a rise-ball for some, or a good hard low outside fastball at the knees can be foundational pitches. I have seen one pitcher in college ball who had a curve-ball as a foundational pitch. But I don't consider a change-up, a curve-ball, or a screw-ball as a foundational pitch. Which leads me to my main point. You can't set batters up helter-skelter by throwing mixed garbage at the plate. I think too many coaches teach too many pitches to too many young girls. If your pitcher can't throw 75-80% first strikes with a foundational pitch, then why is she learning other pitches. More basically, if she can't hit the corners with a fastball 75-80% of the time, why is she learning anything other than a change-up. If supposed coaches are so good, then how is it that their pitchers are missing so much. If your pitcher is walking three or more batters a game, then perhaps her mechanics taught by her fine coaches need a little more tuning!

Personally I would never teach a girl two pitches at one time, and if she doesn't have control of one, then adding another does little to develop her. I teach a student from where she is at! Not where I want her to be. Walk, then run, and don't expect a world record before you get there.

At age 14 and 15 I thought Amanda Freed was going to be the best pitcher out of her and Jennie Finch. Amanda I thought threw some better moving pitches. In college she threw everything in the book. Her control wasn't that great, and she didn't master enough of her pitches. The second best pitcher, Jennie Finch, with less of a repertoire passed her up!

I agree with all of that, and explained that to the parents, but you have to take in what the pitcher/parent and TB coach ultimately want--outside something harmful which I won't do.

I explained to them that her screwball would take some time, because we were working on the rise, and so they understood this. They are being pressured by her TB coach to have every pitch by the time she is a second year 14U.

But the update is we are going to stay away from the curve and screw for awhile because her TB coach is not calling her drop. After talking with her parents I found out her catcher cannot handle them so they are not being called. This highly irritated me that the TB coach wanted her to learn another breaking pitch because his catcher could not handle the one she had.
So all she is throwing is a fastball and a change.

 

[Steve Huff]

A drop-curve is on the plane of the bat-swing for a right handed batter. A regular curve low in the zone is not. That means it's more likely for the batter to "miss" the curve then the drop curve.

Right on starsnuffer! I had a college pitcher, coached by her dad that I had a hard time getting this message through. She thought a curve that broke down and away was better than a true drop-ball, and her rise-ball had about a 10-4 spin and so it broke up and out. I couldn't get it through her head that a rise-ball that moved straight up was better than a rise that climbed down the length of her bat! Your analogy is right on spot!

 

[Steve Huff]

jojo, I had a high school pitcher who was 4'11" in Montana. This kid had her heart set on pitching, so I worked with her. She learned quick, threw well for her size, and had impeccable control. She went 8 games in one stretch without walking a batter. She won 105 straight high school games. She was first team all-state four years. She threw 53-55 her entire career. But that kid had control! We went to a 16U tournament in Vancouver, WA. and the opposing team from Seattle laughed at her when she walked to the mound. To be quite honest, it was really outrageous what a mockery those brats made of her. She threw a fastball, a curve-ball, and a very good change-up. She allowed 1 hit, and we won 2-0. I later moved on to coach in Utah, and I wasn't there for her senior year.

What I would say is if this girl can't handle a drop-ball, then her coach doesn't know how to coach catchers. It is unfortunate when a coach is involved for himself instead of the kids, and by that I mean kids development. Perhaps his catcher sits back too far back in the box for a drop-ball? I feel bad for her and her parents. This coach wants her to know all of these pitches for exactly what I said was wrong. He wants to coach her not from "where she is at", but according to his expectations. And this usually fails. Thankfully she has someone in her corner

 

[Steve Huff]

I understand the point, but if you wait to teach the pitches, you simply run out of years in which to do so. All my young pitchers learn a fastball. change up and peel drop right away.

The mechanics for movement is so different than the fastball, the two just don't affect each other IMO. It is easier to throw movement consistently once you learn it. There is some reason all the top pitchers have no fastballs at all.

If you read my last post, you would see that I am not talking about 80% strikes in practice. Not even! I mean 75-80% first strikes in games. I am not a sideline coach. First let me give you an example of an exception. Michele Smith! Michele often threw a first strike fastball, and claimed it was the best pitch in softball. I know because I did clinics with her for 20 years and followed the National Team and the Redding Rebels around the country. Secondly, I just came back from the EFS (European Federation of Softball) Women's Championships near Trieste, Italy. Netherlands won. Russia should have been at least 3rd, but some bad ITBreaker situational coaching cost them dearly! Twice! The Russian pitchers started 22 out of 26 total batters faced with first pitch fastballs, 18 for strikes. After the four fastballs missed, they threw a second fastball for a strike all four times. So they were 0-1 on 18 batters, and 1-1 on 4 batters. There were four additional batters who they started with 1 screwball, 2 curve-balls, and 1 rise-ball. One of the curve-balls was a strike. My point is, if you throw accurately, which the Russian girls did, you can spot a low outside fastball and 90% of the time on a first pitch the batter will just watch. And of the 10% of the time they swing, maybe 10% or less will be for a hit. Some will be foul balls, a few will be a miss, and some will be a pop-out or a ground-out to 1st or 2nd.

Lastly, there is a good article I read recently. It was about the return of the fastball in college. Lori Sippel, who used to pitch with Michele Smith on the Redding Rebels, and the pitching coach at the University of Nebraska and head coach of the Canadian National Team has said, “…the fastball is making a return in college.” By the way, Lori was primarily a roll-over drop-ball pitcher.

 

[RMGC]

Teaching a curveball is important, but I think having a screwball first is the best way to go. The screwball is an important pitch for a number of reasons. First, it can and is thrown as one of the pitcher's fastest pitches. It can also be thrown off speed. It works well against bunters because the spin can cause the ball to squib foul at times. It can also be thrown up and in to have bunters pop up. Good pull hitters generally hit it foul down the third base side. You also get quite a few swings at the pitch, which is good if you get behind in the count. For all these reasons and the fact that it is a relatively easy pitch to teach, I recommend working on it first.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Teaching a curveball is important, but I think having a screwball first is the best way to go. The screwball is an important pitch for a number of reasons. First, it can and is thrown as one of the pitcher's fastest pitches. It can also be thrown off speed. It works well against bunters because the spin can cause the ball to squib foul at times. It can also be thrown up and in to have bunters pop up. Good pull hitters generally hit it foul down the third base side. You also get quite a few swings at the pitch, which is good if you get behind in the count. For all these reasons and the fact that it is a relatively easy pitch to teach, I recommend working on it first.

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