confused

[chinamigarden]

With all the extra detail my opinion of this situation hasn't changed. The coach might be a horse's rear, but if you isolate how he dealt with your daughter. Which is what you first posted about. I don't see why you would be so upset. Where they placed her and how she has performed has far exceeded your admitted expectations. She had a couple of week games at bat, so the coach took her out of the lineup. I don't see the problem. She is still the starting pitcher on the varsity, when you expected her to be on JV.

If your first post did not detail your daughter's specific situation, how she was taken out of the batting order... but instead talked about the players not returning to the team. How he treats the girls... I think the tone of this thread, in regards to your situation, would have been completely different.

 

[Lozza]

Even then, I still would have said in this particular situation the coach is 100% right to do what he did.

Your daughter, a freshman isn't performing with the bat as is needed. He put someone else in who will do the job. Case closed. Either your daughter uses it to be a better player, or she doesn't and allows Daddy to go in and fix her problems. Which would be a horrible life lesson for her. At her age (freshman are around 15/16?) I was coaching little kids, I was playing and my parents, despite me getting very obvious crap from a coach, didn't step in. Ever. They talked it over with me and gave me the options and then stuck by me when I made my decision.

Here's the simple fact. Unless the coach is found to be do something far worse (and I'm talking illegal actions here) the chances of him being fired are small to none. The man has delivered the school three state championships. If the top seniors not playing has not got him replaced, some freshman who can't handle being benched won't do it.

 

[Sparky Guy]

I disagree. The coach had a bunch of great, young players. It is extremely difficult to get and keep players for a couple of years from the following classes. The parents don't want their kid to sit on the bench for 3 years--so, the talented kids either drop the sport or find another school.

Right now both of us are completely guessing as to the situation. I find it really hard to believe all but one of the older kids has returned to the team. That just don't happen unless, as you say, there is a big group of really talented underclassmen coming up. That is usually a rare occurrence. There's more to it than we know. We're getting the helicopter parent view and having to read into it what we know our experience's tell us usually happens.

As to the point about getting lucky and having a great pitcher--you know and I know having a great pitcher doesn't guarantee anything. It is easy to have a good pitcher, a bad coach and win 20 games. It is difficult to have a good pitcher, a bad coach and win a state title--and this guy won THREE.

What we don't know is at what level. It can be easy to dominate for a stretch with a stud in the circle playing smaller schools. There are also other things that effect HS ball. The post season tournament trail. Look at OPRF. When there were only two classes in Illinois they would cruise regionals, sectionals and maybe have to play a tough super sectional game to make it to the final 8. While all the old SICA West teams had to battle each other to get out of sectionals. The biggest joke was the Chicago team that was let through each year. I don't think they ever won a game.

Marie Barda was one of the best pitchers that ever came through Chicagoland, and her teams never won a state trophy.

Laura Severson , Shannon Lingren, Lindsey Veselsky, Megan Huitink, Megan Hinck and Suzie Rzegocki were all great HS pitchers who never won state. It takes a team to get through the field. In 2004 Lockport won it with very average pitching, but they had great hitting with the Findlay sisters and a couple of other kids who hit the cover off of the ball. They won despite the coach putting them in a 6-0 hole in the championship game. In 2002 the LWE team won it as a first year varsity team with no seniors on the team and a couple of very strong young pitchers.

Denny Throneberg, possibly the best HS coach in Illinois history, only won 6.

Didn't he coach in 1A? Just saying.. Perry Peterson at Barrington is also considered to be one of the best, but he coaches in the old 2A, now 4A level.

The father doesn't understand what the coach understands-- At the top of the softball pyramid, a pitcher is just another player on the team. On good teams, they are no more important than the starting RF. Why? Everyone has a good pitcher at the top.

Yes they all have pitching and no; you just can't bring in the RF to pitch if a pitcher is injured or ill.

The latest versions of the "great" team around here was Coal City. Verdun is gone and they are an also ran. Lemont had the same thing Rzegocki. Both would keep the opposing team off of the bases and usually supply the offense to win the games. Both are doing well in college. SCN and Oak Forest both going through it now. Great pitching and the teams doing well. Once the pitching is gone they will return to also ran's.

The GREAT thing about this game. The scoreboard doesn't know who is supposed to win the game.

 

[sluggers]

dd gave up three homeruns to same girl today.... she shook off pitch after pitch after the first hr and asked, by sign, to walk her and coach told her to throw the pitch or there were three others on the field who could so she did and it was sent about 300 feet onto the other field and landed behind second base.

I'm trying to tell you, from the standpoint of someone who has been through this, that you are not approaching his correctly. You are whining and complaining about the HS coach. If you are going to do this for four years, you are going to be a wreck.

You are not in control, he is. Your DD has to adapt to the coach. The coach does not, and should not, adapt to your DD. If you and your DD don't like him, then quit. It is a simple world. Softball is a little game played by a bunch of kids--that is it.

What you are really doing is giving your DD an excuse to fail. I.e., "the reason the girl hit the homerun was because of the coach, not you." No, the reason your DD gave up the homers was because she didn't pitch well enough. What do I mean? No matter what pitch is called, your DD has control of the location and the speed of the pitch. Really good pitchers might give up one HR, but not three.

You are not the first Dad to go down this path. Every Daddy believes that the coach is an idiot and that he/she is the one standing in the way of his DD's greatness. It just ain't true. You are complaining about something you have *NO* control over. Rather than do that, you have to help her deal with the situation and come up with solutions for her to perform better.

Sparky, I get your point. But, HS pitchers are just ordinary, run of the mill, messed-up little teenagers who happen to be able to throw a ball really, really fast. Our kids are not God's gifts to the HS coaches. We are not doing them a favor by letting them put up with our crazy little kid.

Denny did coach 1A...but there were only 2 division--A and AA when he coached. Perry's won five championships.

 

[dbias]

In the OP I did present a knee jerk reaction to dd's not hitting, and up to that point of the season i had expended considerable energy defending, to many others, many of the quirky if not down right odd decisions he was making during games. I was seriously thinking he was having trouble dealing with so many new faces on the team. This is a very good class of freshmen and they like the previous group that had great sucess have played together rec and tb for years, and he commented after tryouts and cuts that they reminded him of the championship group.
He has straight up admitted to losing at least three games on bad strategy/calls....ex. heated rivalry game and a tense back and forth contest bottom of seventh dd ties game with three runs shot over cf fence to force extra innings....... runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. Asst coach assumes the batter will take first pitch (fake bunt) like a thousand times before and sends runner at release of pitch. HC had told batter to hit away to right field which she did and the cf makes a good catch in the gap and nails first base for a double play. ouch!


Anyway something must be going on at a personal level because parents from last year are the ones commenting most on how odd he is acting, and I think they are more shocked than us new parents are. Being passed up for the Baseball HC job may be it but i dont know, it has been embarassing to set and listen to him rant and rave game after game and to kick things and throw his hat and on and on. He and the asst coach do not even speak anymore and they used to joke around all the time during winter conditioning. Maybe it will pass.... i hope so....... as someone posted earlier some coaches can yell and pressure a team into being better but in this case he is rapidly losing this team.

sluggers..... as to pitching to the homerun queen.... he was calling changeups and yelling "finish" in mid windup... the batter knew what was coming everytime a change up was called. I understand a call for a change up for an aggressive hitter believe me but the other team picked up early that everytime he yelled "finish" a change was coming. Location was hit on second homerun....about 6 inches off the plate and 6 inches off the ground and she still pulled a "tiger woods" and golfed the thing about 250 feet and i swear it went higher than it did long lol
This was a 16 team tourney and three coaches from other teams from the other side of the state who know this girl said she hits homeruns all the time and you simply cant pitch to her... she bats like a pro... anything close that she didnt like she fouls off and when one comes close enough she puts the bat on the ball in a big way.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Sparky, I get your point. But, HS pitchers are just ordinary, run of the mill, messed-up little teenagers who happen to be able to throw a ball really, really fast. Our kids are not God's gifts to the HS coaches. We are not doing them a favor by letting them put up with our crazy little kid.

Ray,

You are correct about the kids. They are teenagers with all the failings and success that accompany the age. However, when I see a really good pitcher I see something different. I see an athlete who has dedicated herself to being the best at something. It takes countless hours of work, missed social events with their peers and many have missed family events all in the effort to excel. So in a way they are a "gift" to the HS coach who gets them. They are dedicated, hard working athletes.

From the further descriptions dbias has posted about the coach, if half of them are true this guy is over the top. When the police have to be called because the coach is having a melt down type argument with his own coaching staff IN PUBLIC while at another school sends up all kinds of red flags. Could you imagine how long a teacher would last if they did that in the middle of the hallway at another school with their peers? Screaming, yelling and bullying are all signs of a coach who has lost control. Look at Bobby Knight. Even with his record the university was finally forced to take action when his "style" of coaching leaked outside the basketball court.

As I wrote earlier about the HC at my DD's HS before she got there. The HC who was brought in was a screamer, yeller and bully along with her assistant. They got rid of her after one season of her nonsense. The coach who came afterward was tough on the kids, but earned their respect without bullying them. They responded by winning her a state title her first year there. Without a senior on the team.

 

[dbias]

With all the extra detail my opinion of this situation hasn't changed. The coach might be a horse's rear, but if you isolate how he dealt with your daughter. Which is what you first posted about. I don't see why you would be so upset. Where they placed her and how she has performed has far exceeded your admitted expectations. She had a couple of week games at bat, so the coach took her out of the lineup. I don't see the problem. She is still the starting pitcher on the varsity, when you expected her to be on JV.


If your first post did not detail your daughter's specific situation, how she was taken out of the batting order... but instead talked about the players not returning to the team. How he treats the girls... I think the tone of this thread, in regards to your situation, would have been completely different.

i agree. her not batting, as selfish as that obviously was, pushed me to post...... when in retrospect with all else that was going on at the time was by far and away the least of this teams worries.

 

[NVfishing]

Here's how I see it. At ages 10-12 pitchers rule the world of softball. At age 14 and up hitters rule the softball world. If you can hit you play ball and are in the lineup.

At my DD's high school one of the best batters on the varsity team went 0-3 the other day. She was moved from 3 to 7 in the order and told she would be demoted even further if the hitting didn't pick up.

Just went to a college game yesterday. I thought the pitching was average. Not much more than I see from some of the high school girls. What stood out was the hitting. Everyone of the girls could swing the bat.