Completion of AB after 4th ball or batter reaches base resulting from walk?

[BuckeyeGuy]

Don't see what is so hard to understand that I'm NOT talking about scorekeeping, but the game itself.

Then let me be clear: you decided to quote a comment I made about scorekeeping apps, and made a snide remark about making excuses in regards to some hypothetical game which had nothing at all to do with my comment. In logic, you committed the fallacy known as non-sequitur.

It smells like you're trying to pick a fight. No idea why, but I'll not oblige you. Good evening.

And again to the OP, apologies for the threadjacking.

 

[MTR]

What does a spray chart have to do with “coaching by numbers”? If anything, old dinos like yourself should love a spray chart because its based entirely on observation. The difference is, instead of depending on perceptions and memories of the coach, it depends on facts.

Part of the concerns noted was tracking the data. I do not believe in making decisions based on numbers. Numbers don't mean shirt.

A couple years ago, I was leaving a meeting and people were watching a Phillies game. The pitcher (Hamels, I believe) had a no-no in the 8th. I bet a guy who was a huge Phillies fan that if he gave up a hit in the eighth, he wouldn't see the ninth because of a ridiculous pitch count. My buddy told me I was out of my mind. Sure enough, there was an infield bleeder that a BR beat out. Come the bottom of the ninth, Hamels wasn't even in the dugout. Probably already in the shower.

There is no doubt that numbers can be an aid in evaluation, but I'm a firm believer one should coach the game in front of you and not make decisions based on numbers which, by the way, are stats, not facts.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Part of the concerns noted was tracking the data. I do not believe in making decisions based on numbers. Numbers don't mean shirt.

A couple years ago, I was leaving a meeting and people were watching a Phillies game. The pitcher (Hamels, I believe) had a no-no in the 8th. I bet a guy who was a huge Phillies fan that if he gave up a hit in the eighth, he wouldn't see the ninth because of a ridiculous pitch count. My buddy told me I was out of my mind. Sure enough, there was an infield bleeder that a BR beat out. Come the bottom of the ninth, Hamels wasn't even in the dugout. Probably already in the shower.

There is no doubt that numbers can be an aid in evaluation, but I'm a firm believer one should coach the game in front of you and not make decisions based on numbers which, by the way, are stats, not facts.

With all due respect, stats are facts, and what happened in 1 game is not a reason to not use the numbers to make coaching decisions. The difference between team and players is so small, any way to gain an advantage over the long haul is reason enough to use anything that will give an advantage. If you don’t think so, that’s great, but you’ll never see anyone get a job as a manager in the ML anymore unless they’re willing to use the numbers to help them.

Is what happens with the numbers in MLB the same as in some low level girl’s SB league or boy’s BB league? Absolutely not! MLB has a system in place to make sure the numbers are correct, but no one else does. But even at that, the scoring would have to be pretty rotten for the number to be completely useless. However, if you’re a better manager than every ML manger and most college HCs and don’t need any help, good on ya! By all means, if you don’t need no stinking numbers, stay away from them.

 

[riseball]

Part of the concerns noted was tracking the data. I do not believe in making decisions based on numbers. Numbers don't mean shirt.

A couple years ago, I was leaving a meeting and people were watching a Phillies game. The pitcher (Hamels, I believe) had a no-no in the 8th. I bet a guy who was a huge Phillies fan that if he gave up a hit in the eighth, he wouldn't see the ninth because of a ridiculous pitch count. My buddy told me I was out of my mind. Sure enough, there was an infield bleeder that a BR beat out. Come the bottom of the ninth, Hamels wasn't even in the dugout. Probably already in the shower.

There is no doubt that numbers can be an aid in evaluation, but I'm a firm believer one should coach the game in front of you and not make decisions based on numbers which, by the way, are stats, not facts.

Way to go out on limb. I mean only a highly intuitive baseball scholar would have seen that one coming.

 

[MTR]

Way to go out on limb. I mean only a highly intuitive baseball scholar would have seen that one coming.

That's good, but it had nothing to do with baseball, but the dummying down of sports management through the use of numbers. Hey, it got the bar a round on the other guy who was, in fact, a baseball scholar who just didn't believe the manager would be so dumb.

 

[Scorekeeper]

That's good, but it had nothing to do with baseball, but the dummying down of sports management through the use of numbers. Hey, it got the bar a round on the other guy who was, in fact, a baseball scholar who just didn't believe the manager would be so dumb.

Why do you believe the only possible reason for making the change in that one game was because the pitcher reached some magic number of pitches, and from that come to the conclusion that the manager is stupid?

I've known a few ML coaches, and to a man they all make it very plain that every decision manager's make is based on a lot more than only 1 thing.

 

[MTR]

Why do you believe the only possible reason for making the change in that one game was because the pitcher reached some magic number of pitches, and from that come to the conclusion that the manager is stupid?

Because the manager said so. Outright stated that he hit his number and the only thing that kept him in the game was the no hitter. Hell, even that doesn't stop them any more as Hamels was recently removed from a game with a no hitter on the line and it took four more pitchers to keep it a no hitter. IMO, that is more of a no hitters game than a pitched no hitter.

I've known a few ML coaches, and to a man they all make it very plain that every decision manager's make is based on a lot more than only 1 thing.

As it should be, but in today's world, especially MLB, the pitching game has crumbled because of numbers and locked in situational coaching. Pitchers getting paid millions cannot finish a game, but why? Because they don't know how, are not strong enough, not skilled enough or because the chart says that getting 5 good innings is good enough?

How many of them have more pitches than a 16U softball pitcher? I'd love to find that number.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Because the manager said so. Outright stated that he hit his number and the only thing that kept him in the game was the no hitter. Hell, even that doesn't stop them any more as Hamels was recently removed from a game with a no hitter on the line and it took four more pitchers to keep it a no hitter. IMO, that is more of a no hitters game than a pitched no hitter.

You’re taking some sound byte the manager threw at the media, and assuming it’s a simple as that.

So what if Hamels was taken out? What the purpose at that level, win the game or make a player’s numbers look better?

As it should be, but in today's world, especially MLB, the pitching game has crumbled because of numbers and locked in situational coaching. Pitchers getting paid millions cannot finish a game, but why? Because they don't know how, are not strong enough, not skilled enough or because the chart says that getting 5 good innings is good enough?

How many of them have more pitches than a 16U softball pitcher? I'd love to find that number.

Crumbled? You must be watching some other ML than I am.

Who cares if pitchers finish a game? I care about having my best guys as fresh as possible as soon as possible for the next outing, not whether they meet some BS macho challenge by people who have no clue about what they’re there for.

This is 2014 and there’s a reason ML managers manage the way they do! Don’t you get it that pitchers in the days you seem to revere were little more than pieces of meat? Sure they pitched more innings, but what did it get them? A very good friend of mine was a pitching coach for the Dodgers, and is a personal friend of Sandy Koufax. He’s often told me Koufax even today wonders if he didn’t try to finish every game no matter what, if his career might not have lasted a few years longer. I don’t know about you, but I’d say a few managers would rather have had Sandy Koufax throw 6 or 7 innings for another 3 years than have him do what he did, then suffer in pain for the next 3 days and be finished when he was.

The point is, pitchers, especially great ones, are a very valuable commodity, and wasting them just to put some statin the books is a pretty bad business decision.