Coaches, for you: Why or why not let the pitcher throw her movement pitches?

[Country Boy]

OK Im going on a little rant here, First of all the main reason that coaches dont let them throw their so called movement pitches is because the majority of them DONT MOVE! Now dont get me wrong here I dont know your DD or her pitching level but I get so tired of parents telling me their DD can throw five different pitches!!!! I tell them when they can hit their spot consistently with their fastball we will talk about it. Give me a pitcher with a good fast ball that can hit her spots and a decent change up thats all I need to win.

Spot on!!!!!! Woo Hoo! Post of the week!

 

[EP Dad]

That's great guys. My daughter wouldn't be able to pitch for you. She can hit her spots, she has a change up, but the first thing you'd say is she doesn't throw fast enough. How do I know? Cause that's what everyone says. So, then you'll spend all your time with the big girl who has more speed and you'll forget all about that spot and control thing.

Cause that's what has happened to us over and over again.

 

[Momo'sDad]

I have one pitcher that has pretty good control of her fastball. She's ready to start learning a 2nd pitch and that'll be the emphasis this winter. I also think there's more speed in her arm.

My DD occasionally (meaning not really on purpose) throws a fastball that moves from left to right and ran into a young ump last weekend who wouldn't give her that corner. Her best changeup is good, but she doesn't have command over it yet. She's only thrown it 2 times all season and recorded Ks on both, but it's her call as to when to go to it.

Both girls are 9 (2002 bd) and love pitching. They'll be back in regular rec in the spring and will be able to experiment to their heart's content with the changeup, a pitch they'll need if they hope to get any circle time during All-stars.

I can imagine that both girls will add a 3rd pitch in a couple of years.

 

[marriard]

OK Im going on a little rant here, First of all the main reason that coaches dont let them throw their so called movement pitches is because the majority of them DONT MOVE! Now dont get me wrong here I dont know your DD or her pitching level but I get so tired of parents telling me their DD can throw five different pitches!!!! I tell them when they can hit their spot consistently with their fastball we will talk about it. Give me a pitcher with a good fast ball that can hit her spots and a decent change up thats all I need to win.

So are you saying you will only call FB/CU or are you saying that you will only start considering additional pitches when they have demonstrated that their FB/CU's are strong?

I don't know where you are but around here, by the time you hit 14U travel (and even in 12U and against some 10A teams) you better have some sort of command on your movement pitches or you are going to get hit hard and often even if you have good location on your FB and CU.

 

[razmataz]

A very respected pitching coach in Texas teaches fastball and change up until 12u. Then he will incorporate a drop and when your pitcher is consistently above 55mph he will bring in the other movement pitches.

Fact is most kids don't throw hard enough to have an effective movement pitch until they are quite a bit older. If the movement is gradual like it is with a slower pitch speed then it isn't hard to hit and the result is usually a better hitting angle. If you have a pitcher who throws two pitches well and one is a change up you have all you need to get through high school. The key is location and variable speeds.

The key is spin rate, not enough coaches emphasize this, the pitchers have to learn to really spin the ball, and work hard on spin for movement.

 

[marriard]

A very respected pitching coach in Texas teaches fastball and change up until 12u. Then he will incorporate a drop and when your pitcher is consistently above 55mph he will bring in the other movement pitches.

Fact is most kids don't throw hard enough to have an effective movement pitch until they are quite a bit older. If the movement is gradual like it is with a slower pitch speed then it isn't hard to hit and the result is usually a better hitting angle. If you have a pitcher who throws two pitches well and one is a change up you have all you need to get through high school. The key is location and variable speeds.

The key is spin rate, not enough coaches emphasize this, the pitchers have to learn to really spin the ball, and work hard on spin for movement.

Yes you have said this twice now (and I agree that teaching spin is a very important factor in teaching movement). And while it is a great that one pitching coach has this philosophy and teaching method that doesn't mean it applies to everyone or is agreed to by everyone. There are lots of very successful approaches out there.

I do disagree on just how much speed is really needed for a pitch to move and just how easy it is to hit it when it does move. Anytime you move a ball on another plane other than straight you have added an additional complication to hitting. How big is the difference between a ground ball, a line drive and a pop-up - an inch? two inches on the bat? How much drop do you really need against players that haven't yet spent time learning to pick out what pitch is being thrown? Perhaps no more than the size of the ball - maybe a little more?

Yes as they get older, these pitches will naturally have to move more and be thrown harder (and with varied speed) as the batters get better and the competition gets stronger, but the only way I see that happening is giving these pitchers an opportunity to throw them in both practice and live situations.

We get so caught up in the 'big movement' and flashy strike outs we forget that when a batter grounds a ball to an infielder or hits an easy pop-up the PITCHER won the battle. 3 ground outs to SS and 2nd works just as well as 3 K's. We get caught up in watching these big power pitchers in college we forget that there are other effective ways to do it. The game changes and things come and go based on who is being successful right now and it changes all the time. I try to remain as flexible as I can (and sometime I even succeed).

 

[chinamigarden]

We get so caught up in the 'big movement' and flashy strike outs we forget that when a batter grounds a ball to an infielder or hits an easy pop-up the PITCHER won the battle. 3 ground outs to SS and 2nd works just as well as 3 K's. We get caught up in watching these big power pitchers in college we forget that there are other effective ways to do it. The game changes and things come and go based on who is being successful right now and it changes all the time. I try to remain as flexible as I can (and sometime I even succeed).

Thats the truth. My dd is what I would call a strike out pitcher. She averages 10+ per 7 innings. But I am very happy when she pitches a 5 pitch inning. Nothing like 3 quick outs to keep her fresh for the end of the game. When I know she has to pitch more then 1 game, I love seeing lots of ground balls and pop ups.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I've caught many a 14U and some 16Us w/ supposedly 2-4 movement pitches and if I can't tell what pitch they've actually thrown, then I feel safe in concluding they don't move. Put another way, if a kid has a movement pitch and is able to throw > low-mid 50s I will have a difficult time catching it if I don't know its coming.

 

[BaldNBeautiful]

OK Im going on a little rant here, First of all the main reason that coaches dont let them throw their so called movement pitches is because the majority of them DONT MOVE! Now dont get me wrong here I dont know your DD or her pitching level but I get so tired of parents telling me their DD can throw five different pitches!!!! I tell them when they can hit their spot consistently with their fastball we will talk about it. Give me a pitcher with a good fast ball that can hit her spots and a decent change up thats all I need to win.

You are exactly right! Just because her Pitching Coach has shown her the grip, and even how to throw it, the only thing that matters is a consistent result.

 

[RayR]

Fact of the matter is that too many pitchers spend too much time being a jack of all pitches and master of none....You need 3 pitches to be really successful.....but 2 will still get you plenty of wins.....if you master them....but its more like pitchers throw 12 months a year and get bored so they want to learn a new pitch before the other pitches are mastered....and most pitching coaches fear losing a client so they indulge in the drive thru mentality....

I throw a 2 seam, 4 seam, 3 different change ups, drop, drop curve, rise, screw, back door screw.....lol