breaking pitches for young pitchers

[Dusty]

I'll leave "young pitchers" fairly vague in definition although my dd's are 10 and 12. The younger one is strictly a fastball/changeup pitcher and the older one has a drop and her pitching coach is just starting to teach her the riseball.

I have some biases about how to teach my kids to throw inside/outside breaking pitches, but I'd like to hear what more experienced pitching coaches have to say about it. My question boils down to whether it's better to teach kids to acheive break, inside or outside, by manipulating their wrist as well as their fingers or keeping the wrist release the same and manipulating release off the fingers.

Based on my limited experience I'd say it's probably better to focus on the fingers and keep the wrist snap consistent. I help coach my younger dd's team and early on in the fall season I heard the pitchers talking about how one kid had four or five different pitches. A few practices later I ended up catching for her and it looked to me like she used three different wrist releases to acheive three different fastballs, topspin, bullet spin and reverse bullet spin. The kid was a good pitcher with a nice topspin fastball and changeup but I couldn't help but think that the curve and screw she was throwing were not helping her at all.

I suppose the drawback to emphasizing a breaking ball spin by manipulating the inside or outside fingers is that there would likely be less break and a young pitcher may not have the finger strength to acheive any significant break at all. At least they be less likely to lose their fastball and drop trying to throw a breaking pitch this way though.

I'd like to hear about the success and failures any pitching coaches out there have had teaching the above or any other techniques to throw breaking pitches.

Dusty

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

I too am interested in hearing what pitching coaches have to say about this.

DD has been learning breaking pitches for about a year. The way she has been taught, there is not one breaking pitch where spin is controlled by only the fingers (or only fingers and wrist snap for that matter).

I am not saying that DD has these pitches, I am saying she is learning them. once she figures out which works best for her she will then "have 2 or maybe 3 pitches", but only when very proficient.

breaking Pitches DD is trying to learn:
* Peel drop (shoulders are too weak for roll over drop)
* Rise
* Screw
* Drop curve

 

[PA SB Dad]

This is the only place on the web where I read about pre-teen pitchers with breaking pitches. Most of the pitching websites I visit talk about teaching fastball and change up to most pitchers in this age group, and waiting on breaking pitches until the kid matures.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

This is the only place on the web where I read about pre-teen pitchers with breaking pitches. Most of the pitching websites I visit talk about teaching fastball and change up to most pitchers in this age group, and waiting on breaking pitches until the kid matures.

Maybe I should clarify that DD is 14 playing ASA 16U.

A little bit past preteen

 

[Dusty]

This is the only place on the web where I read about pre-teen pitchers with breaking pitches. Most of the pitching websites I visit talk about teaching fastball and change up to most pitchers in this age group, and waiting on breaking pitches until the kid matures.

Didn't see a reply like this coming

I believe I said in my first sentence that I'm specifically not defining an age group other than "young" and that my kids haven't learned a breaking pitch other than a downward breaking drop ball to date.

If you want to wait until your dd is in HS before she learns anything other than a FB/CU combo then this thread isn't for you.

 

[halskinner]

This is the only place on the web where I read about pre-teen pitchers with breaking pitches. Most of the pitching websites I visit talk about teaching fastball and change up to most pitchers in this age group, and waiting on breaking pitches until the kid matures.

This is probably the only website where people giving advice are not limited to that mindset and it's limitations. Most of the advisors on other sites only know one way of teaching ANY movement pitch. There is more than one way to teach 'a' riseball, I know three and depending on the student, I may start a 10-year-old on one or two of those but not the third. That one would come later.

Most fastballs taught are with the peel drop grip. If the students hands are big enough and strong enough, there is the traditional fastball grip.

What you can teach to a 'Young' pitcher depends on the student and on the teacher's knowledge.

What you need to understand is that the vast majority of coaches that work with pitchers only know one way of throwing any particular movement pitch.

Knowing more than one way of throwing any particular pitch can give the instructor an advantage over some and, many more options available to teach any particular (or particular age) students.

 

[CoachFP]

Kids shouldn't try to throw "movement" pitches until they can throw the staight ones consistently for good strikes. If they can't do that, they'll never truly get the breaking pitches over consistently. Fathers are the biggest offenders. They want their kids throwing 6-9 pitches as soon as possible.

 

[sluggers]

I went to a 100+ team 16U exposure tournament a few weeks ago, and watched about 20 or so pitchers. Out of the 20 pitchers, one kid had a drop and another had a rise. Other than those two kids, everyone else was throwing fastballs and changeups.

It was pretty funny--the coach would be in deep thought as to what pitch to call and the location, and he would earnestly signal the catcher, and the catcher would earnestly signal the pitcher. And the pitcher's face would get all intense and then--fastball, down the middle. Over and over and over again. I was giggling.

The kid was a good pitcher with a nice topspin fastball and changeup but I couldn't help but think that the curve and screw she was throwing were not helping her at all.

It is because she can't throw a curve or screw. If a kid "has" a real breaking pitch, you will know it. It breaks 12 to 18 inches.

Until the child has good form, you shouldn't be teaching the kid breaking pitches. If the child doesn't have good form, then teaching a breaking pitch interferes with the child learning the proper way to throw the ball.

Most people on this site recognize the difference between teaching a kid a breaking pitch and the kid actually "having" the breaking pitch. It drives most of us a little crazy for some Daddy to start writing about his 12YOA DD throwing 55 mph and "having" a curve, screw, rise, and drop.

 

[CoachFP]

One thing that I have learned is that the majority (as in most) of the kids pitching in travel ball don't have and may never have the capacity to really develop a movement pitch. They are either not strong enough or athletic enough to do it. They should concentrate on location and change of speeds. It sounds harsh in a way, but it is true in my opinion.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

Coach, I actually agree with you completely on your first statement.

One thing that I have learned is that the majority (as in most) of the kids pitching in travel ball don't have and may never have the capacity to really develop a movement pitch. They are either not strong enough or athletic enough to do it.

Most kids pitching in travel ball will never develop a movement pitch. A few will develop 1 or 2 and even fewer will be good enough (or desire) to continue on to college ball.

Your last statement is flawed IMO...

They should concentrate on location and change of speeds. It sounds harsh in a way, but it is true in my opinion.

...and only pertains to the kids that will never have the capacity to develop a movement pitch.