Barnhill-Collegiate Player of the year. #usasoftball

[cweb]

Please dont stop! The first thing I do when I come home from work is not a beer or dinner. It is DFP and these threads. Absolutely the most entertaining part of my day.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Not sure what else to add I think all sides have voiced their opinion. I thought until the end the conversation was civil.

You aren't going to change anyone's mind on an internet forum. I come here for that one post in a 30 page thread that I hadn't considered before. As a coach I don't want to stop learning.

I think we all agree that the pitching rules aren't being enforced properly and the coaches, NCAA, and umpires share a lot of that burden. The details after that are debatable.

 

[Rocketech1]

do you have some vested interest in barnhill, carlson, silkwood and all else that pitch illegally? why are you so much in defense of them?
just curious.

On the contrary, I'm not defending those pitchers in fact I have gone out of my way to highlight their illegal mechanics.

My two points for posting in these IP threads is:

a) to clear-up a lot of misinformation that is thrown around like fact (e.g. Barnhill is getting an extra 3 feet of leap from her replant. As if a 5'8" D1 pitcher can only stride 4.5 to 5 feet???) and

b) to point out that the system is broken at all levels of the game and has been broken for more than a decade. I'm hoping that the governing bodies finally do something about it (either have umpires call all IPs or change the rules so everyone can enjoy the same benefits of pitching the same way).

Now, I'm going to go watch some WCWS and see some great sofball this weekend and overlook this 800lb guerilla in the room.....

 

[riseball]

On the contrary, I'm not defending those pitchers in fact I have gone out of my way to highlight their illegal mechanics.

My two points for posting in these IP threads is:

a) to clear-up a lot of misinformation that is thrown around like fact (e.g. Barnhill is getting an extra 3 feet of leap from her replant. As if a 5'8" D1 pitcher can only stride 4.5 to 5 feet???) and

b) to point out that the system is broken at all levels of the game and has been broken for more than a decade. I'm hoping that the governing bodies finally do something about it (either have umpires call all IPs or change the rules so everyone can enjoy the same benefits of pitching the same way).

Now, I'm going to go watch some WCWS and see some great sofball this weekend and overlook this 800lb guerilla in the room.....

While I actually agree with b) item a) is irrelevant.

My point for posting in this thread is that stride length aside, Barnhill is attaining a competitive advantage that is not possible without her pitching illegally, via a leap and replant. I have yet to hear anyone coherently argue otherwise. That said, the fact that she knowingly pitches illegally in order to attain a competitive advantage makes her by definition a cheat. As such she is not deserving of any accolades or praise.

 

[marriard]

While I actually agree with b) item a) is irrelevant.

My point for posting in this thread is that stride length aside, Barnhill is attaining a competitive advantage that is not possible without her pitching illegally, via a leap and replant. I have yet to hear anyone coherently argue otherwise. That said, the fact that she knowingly pitches illegally in order to attain a competitive advantage makes her by definition a cheat. As such she is not deserving of any accolades or praise.

She isn't even pretending this evening against LSU. There is a a huge 'no drag' gap between the rubber and when she is landing after her leap. You can actually see the dirt come up when she lands. You can even see it with the view above and behind the pitcher which is a terrible angle to see it. Every other angle they show you can see it clearly. This is not 'hard to see' or 'irrelevant'. It is blatant. Right now she knows they are not going to call it, so she isn't even making a half effort.

And lets face it - it isn't really on her. Everyone absolutely knew she was doing this coming through the age groups and she was not alone - in fact there are some more coming into college every year - Barnhill is just the worst and most obvious of a bunch of offenders. This wasn't some big secret. There have probably been hundreds of enablers through her development years. Coaches that have said "Don't worry about it, they wont call it" or have said nothing because she was on 'their team'. Showcases and tournaments that don't call it. USA Softball, PGF, umpire orgs, tournament directors, other coaches, college coaches recruiting her, and so on... When you are continually told this is OK by the people surrounding you when you are young, impressionable and developing (and having success), well why wouldn't you think it is OK? I am not excusing her - she is not 12 years old anymore - but I do certainly understand.

My point is that this isn't just her - this is also other people who lack the integrity to address the pitching situation. Each year USA Softball/ASA spend their time reviewing their geographic zones, awarding championships to some remote area and clarifying some minor issue in the rules while they kick the can down the road on addressing this and a couple of other obvious issues.

 

[riseball]

She isn't even pretending this evening against LSU. There is a a huge 'no drag' gap between the rubber and when she is landing after her leap. You can actually see the dirt come up when she lands. You can even see it with the view above and behind the pitcher which is a terrible angle to see it. Every other angle they show you can see it clearly. This is not 'hard to see' or 'irrelevant'. It is blatant. Right now she knows they are not going to call it, so she isn't even making a half effort.

And lets face it - it isn't really on her. Everyone absolutely knew she was doing this coming through the age groups. This wasn't some big secret. There have probably been hundreds of enablers through her development years. Coaches that have said "Don't worry about it, they wont call it" or have said nothing because she was on 'their team'. Showcases and tournaments that don't call it. USA Softball, PGF, umpire orgs, tournament directors, other coaches, college coaches recruiting her, and so on... When you are continually told this is OK by the people surrounding you when you are young, impressionable and developing (and having success), well why wouldn't you think it is OK? I am not excusing her - she is not 12 years old anymore - but I do certainly understand.

My point is that this isn't just her - this is also other people who lack the integrity to address the pitching situation. Each year USA Softball/ASA spend their time reviewing their geographic zones, awarding championships to some remote area and clarifying some minor issue in the rules while they kick the can down the road on addressing this (and a couple of other) obvious issue.

Hoover has also been more egregious than usual. I love the way they use super slo-mo on the grips and release and conveniently cut off the feet. How about some analysis on footwork? Given the blown calls and IP's I think the time is right for instant replay. They could start at regionals which are all televised so having the equipment is not an issue. Maybe use something similar to the NFL model with an allotted number of challenges.

 

[curiousgeorge]

Am I missing something here? I don't see the opponents complaining about her "hop". You'd think the coaches would be all over her if this was as bad as some here are saying. Moreover, these umpires are supposed to be the cream of the crop to be assigned the WCWS (although I think the strike zone's have been been brutal) are all not calling IP's. Are they ALL wrong and the folks on DFP are right? The fact that she seems to drag on the ground before the "replant" seems to be the fly in the ointment.

CG

 

[riseball]

Am I missing something here? I don't see the opponents complaining about her "hop". You'd think the coaches would be all over her if this was as bad as some here are saying. Moreover, these umpires are supposed to be the cream of the crop to be assigned the WCWS (although I think the strike zone's have been been brutal) are all not calling IP's. Are they ALL wrong and the folks on DFP are right? The fact that she seems to drag on the ground before the "replant" seems to be the fly in the ointment.

CG

I do not think the coaches are all wrong at all. The word I would use is complicit. As to the umpires, it is no secret they are awful. All the BS aside about not being able to see it in real time, there is a directive or at minimum tacit instruction not to enforce the rules of the game during a national championship which should concern any sports fan.

 

[Rocketech1]

Am I missing something here? I don't see the opponents complaining about her "hop". You'd think the coaches would be all over her if this was as bad as some here are saying. Moreover, these umpires are supposed to be the cream of the crop to be assigned the WCWS (although I think the strike zone's have been been brutal) are all not calling IP's. Are they ALL wrong and the folks on DFP are right? The fact that she seems to drag on the ground before the "replant" seems to be the fly in the ointment.

CG

You really think LSU is going to complain when their own pitcher Hoover has been hopping the whole game? The NCAA has, defacto, given the green light to pitch illegally.

 

[curiousgeorge]

I liked Hillhouse's idea last week that allows the runners on base to leave at the forward motion of the pitcher. That would automatically force pitchers to get ride of that motion, wouldn't it?

CG