Ball facing up at 9 or ball facing 3rd at 9?

[sluggers]

Is the ball supposed to be facing 3B at 9 or up at 9?

I understand for max IR you would want it up at 9, but I don't see the elite pitching doing so.

Any help?

 

[LeftiesDad]

Define 9 o'clock for me please. Beyond it being 3/4 of the way through the pitch. Is it Ball at 9 or upper arm at 9?

Thanks

 

[Ken B]

Getting the ball into a lagged position improves the potential for whip (palm/thump up going into release.) We talk about palm/thumb to catcher and palm up at 9 o'clock a lot because it's the best place to start for beginning pitchers, and those learning how to whip. Many elite pitchers model this: Osterman, Ueno, Abbott are examples. Ultimately, I think that palm up is most beneficial at the beginning of the whip phase--about the point the upper arm pauses at the side. Some of the pitchers who are seen with palm to 3B at 9 o'clock externally rotate the hand around 8 o'clock to thumb up.

 

[FastPitchCat]

does this hold true for all kinds of pitches? how about backflip c/u and riseball?
ken - can you elaborate on what you said about some pitchers externally rotating to palm up at around 8 o'clock?
does this mean 3B at 9, then from 9->8 (30 degrees) arm rotates to palm up? is this what you mean?

 

[JJsqueeze]

maybe not at exactly 9 as a rule, but all the elites I see do get it pretty close to up if not at 9 then just past 9 as they accelerate their arm and the hand rotates up as a result of the acceleration. the Finch side view slo mo is the only example I can think of where she doesn't get fully ball to the sky at some point. but even there, at 9 the ball is mostly facing third but just past 9 it goes up more in reaction to the acceleration.

if you hold a ball with it facing third at 9 o clock and adduct hard the ball will rotate towards the sky just because the mass is going to torque the forearm in that direction. This is one of the reasons I think a lot of kids "accidentally" pitch with I/R even when instructed not too.

 

[Doug Romrell]

I use to say ball toward 3B when arm/hand are at 9:00. I'm now a firm believer that the whip is enhanced by having the palm up (or very nearly so) at when arm/hand are at 9:00.

 

[coachbob]

This is a pretty cool still.

 

[Ken B]

does this hold true for all kinds of pitches? how about backflip c/u and riseball?
ken - can you elaborate on what you said about some pitchers externally rotating to palm up at around 8 o'clock?
does this mean 3B at 9, then from 9->8 (30 degrees) arm rotates to palm up? is this what you mean?

I believe the RB benefits from starting palm/thumb up.

Yes on the in the last quarter. I wish I could find the examples I was thinking of... I like JJ's explanation of why it happens.

I think you can also feel the difference yourself. Try some easy/relaxed releases (no ball to start) with the inside of the elbow making contact with the hip. Do a bunch palm down; then several more palm up.

 

[BoardMember]

Somehow I smelled this coming from Sluggers.........In fact.......I could've bet my house on it........

Do we really have to comb though the hundreds of clips I (and others) have posted showing THE BALL/PALM MORE UP THEN SIDEWAYS AT 9:00, because you're on a "campaign" going on about what's important and what isn't so important??

How many clips can I put in one post??? I could fill up a page of these..........

 

[coachbob]

There is one gif out there that shows a late forearm E/R to palm-up from 3rd base at somewhere past 9 o'clock. I've seen a few pitchers do that. Is it really significant what degree of palm up exists? Seems like it might be subject to the physical limitations of the athlete too. I wonder what you think of that late extra load BM. Can't find the gif I was thinking about.