Balanced vs End Loaded

[vdubya]

Hitter, I'm glad HC is on this board! Welcome.

If I'm wrong...nah. Your style comes thru even in print. I met you recently at a clinic and it was fascinating seeing you work with a young hitter. I only wish you could fit my 11yo in every week or two, but I'll at least look forward to soaking up some knowledge here.

VW

 

[Hitter]

Hitter, I'm glad HC is on this board! Welcome.

If I'm wrong...nah. Your style comes thru even in print. I met you recently at a clinic and it was fascinating seeing you work with a young hitter. I only wish you could fit my 11yo in every week or two, but I'll at least look forward to soaking up some knowledge here.

VW

Thank you! Was it at the Hawks Clinic at SWOBATS? I thought mom was going to loose it when I told her that she probably would not throw well based on her swing. What were your thoughts on the nail simulator and hammer?

Thanks Howard

 

[RayR]

Try a of couple experiments with your daughters and do it one at a time so the other one can not learn from the first....you want them to do what they normally would do.

Get a piece of rope and knot it at one end and the knotted end will be the knob of the bat. Have her get into her stance, load, toe touch (notice if she even separates her hands rearward however do not say anything) you will be standing behind her back as if it was the umpire holding the other end of the rope and after toe touch put a little tension on the rope to provide a little resistance and then ask her to slowly start her swing. Just observe and notice what direction her hands moved. Did they go over the plate? Inside the path of the ball? Did her front shoulder open? Did her back elbow clear her body or did the elbow stay in near her the hip or ribs?

Feel blessed if the hands moved rearward (separation) and feel blessed if the hands went forward inside the path of the ball and the elbow did not touch the ribs or hip area.

Now try it with the other daughter and compare notes. USUALLY the ones with a better hand path will and can handle an end load bat. Those that can not will USUALLY struggle with an end loaded bat mainly because their hand path is not consistent and they have little to no momentum. When converting a right to left handed hitter we find this useful also. Some argue to get the elbow in close to the body and we say it MUST clear the body. While doing the rope have them clear the body and pull and then move the elbow closer and ask which position feels stronger? Especially for the girls with larger breasts or the girls that are thicker the hands must be started a little further away and some more than others.

Now try one more experiment please...take a 2x4 and turn it so the narrow side is up (this allows the nail to go deeper into the wood and provides resistance) and clamp it in a vise or secure safely. Now start a 16 penny nail at least a half inch. If you have safety glasses I would have her wear them as the nail could come flying out if not struck properly. Again just observe.

Record it on video so you can enjoy the moment because it will be funny! Ask her to drive the nail into the wood. Some thoughts while she is doing this...is she balanced, how is she holding the hammer, is she choking up on the hammer, where is her other hand, is she trying to use her entire arm to swing, how much elbow movement verses wrist or mainly her wrist, is she just tapping the nail or trying to hit it hard?

There is eye hand coordination taking place and she will and can feel the release of the hammer head once she figures out the grip she is using too successfully hit the nail should be the same grip she is using on the bat. The top hand in my opinion should not have the thumb over the index finger and the hammer handle should be at or in front of the index finger pad and not be held in the back of the hand. I have seen some girls come up on their tip toes and hold the other hand out to their side as they attempt to hit the nail and that is funny is too funny. Then ask them to try it with the other hand. Then after this is done get an old bat and hold it horizontally and explain this is a nail while pointing to the knob of the bat (point out it is really the ball we want to nail) and gently hit it and observe the hand path she uses when only using the top hand and how she grips the hammer handle. Then repeat using the bottom hand. In the bottom hand we want them to grip the hammer differently. We lay the hammer (bat handle) exactly where the fingers join at the palm of the hand. Look at how and where the lead elbow moves to get to the knob of the bat.

Invest in a $7 dollar hammer at the dollar store and get a ball peen hammer verses a claw hammer as it is safer. I have even mounted a ball peen hammer head to an aluminum bat handle for better effect because of the regular oval design most hammers have.

After she learns how to use the hammer then look at investing in a new bat. However the old bat may become new when she learns how her wrist, elbows and grip play a part in her swing which she probably has never felt before in my opinion. It is a neuro muscular activity most girls are never exposed to and I wished I had done it when I first started working with the girls.

Please let us know how it went

I have been looking at the rear wrist position at set up and throughout the swing and how this positioning affects how the barrel is released into contact.

I also have a construction background (swinging hammers) and can attest to the fact that wrist positioning and its articulation greatly affects how you drive a nail (especially in awkward positions and using your other hand).

For instance, if I swing a hammer as I would a bat with my top hand my wrist has to be in an extended position to allow the hammer head to strike a powerful blow. Extended meaning hand bent back like carrying a waiter's tray.

If I keep the wrist neutral (flat) or flexed (bent forward) I have to push to get the hammer to contact. Even if you swing a hammer straight down your wrist needs to extend to allow the wrist to rotate correctly.

Try doing rear arm swings with the extended wrist set up. The wrist is allowed to rotate naturally and the barrel whips around with less effort. Understand, though, this takes some practice and strength to get down. It is easy to lose the barrel from this set up if the player is not strong enough (I don't think you need to be really strong - just strong in the sense that you control the barrel while keeping your wrist extended and allow the wrist to rotate.)

 

[Hitter]

MTS thank you for input and see some value in teaching girls how to use the hammer. When we teach we actually have a ball on a stick that mounts to a wall and they practice with a real hammer using the top hand first and the lead hand and you grip it differently for each hand in my opinion. Then when the get comfortable I have made a real hammer bat that has a solid rubber mallet attached at 28 inches to simulate the sweet spot on the bat. Then they swing slowly to feel it. Then I put them on a tee and the swing with it. This gets them to hit only with the sweet part of the bat and any deviation and they either miss or do not hit the ball squarely. Don Slaught used this with the Tigers and they could hit home runs with it during batting practice.

This was the basis of my design for the WhipHit.

Have you actually tried teaching using the hammer and driving nails to your students?

Thanks Howard

 

[softballphreak]

When using the hammer drill, at point of contact are the hands in a near palm down (bottom hand), palm up (top hand) position?

When using a hammer to drive a nail my wrist flexes (cocks and uncocks); is that the same effect I should see in the wrists when batting?

 

[Hitter]

When using the hammer drill, at point of contact are the hands in a near palm down (bottom hand), palm up (top hand) position?

When using a hammer to drive a nail my wrist flexes (cocks and uncocks); is that the same effect I should see in the wrists when batting?

Some will say do not involve the wrists conscientiously and they unhinge on their own. We say rotate as needed, using the belly button as an indicator of how far to rotate the hips as needed depending on the location of the pitch. We release early on the wrist and bat angle for a ball further in the box and away and the belly button is pointed basically towards the second baseman's playing position or possibly towards the first baseman's playing position as a (RH). The action of the wrist is felt when we teach how to use the hammer. When using the lead hand the hammer is under the forearm, think elbow, knob of bat and release the hammer head to the ball. When using the top hand we say the elbow lowers toward the slot and start our tilt and turn and want the hand to be stacked over the elbow and the shoulders are turning and the hammer as is transitioning, turning (not from the wrist) and we are leading with the knob of the bat and the hammer is above the elbow and the hammer head/ bat is below the hands slightly depending on the pitch and we release. We then release the hammer head/ bat to the ball from the wrist. Someone PM'd me that the wrist turns the palm up like a waiter carrying a tray if you had the palm open. Personally I like that description! Too much thinking about the forearm turning and wrist turning. Just allow the elbow to slot as you turn and tilt and keep the elbow under the fist leading the elbows with the knob of the bat and rotate as needed seems to work for us.

I would mention we grip the bat differently in the bottom hand verses the top hand to facilitate the movement in the top hand. In my opinion this is where some of the issues are seen as to casting out and wrist rolling and not being able to direct the knob of the bat inside the path of the ball (bat control) comes from as the bat is held too far in the back of the top hand. We do not line the finger knuckles up. In the top hand the finger knuckles are off to about where my wedding ring is and the bat angles across my hand. I tie a piece of saran wrap on the index finger on the top hand as a reminder to keep the bat placement forward of the index finger pad. We do not want the index finger and thumb wrapped around the bat as we feel it restricts the movement of the bat head and does not allow the barrel to release with as much force.


Thanks Howard

 

[softballphreak]

Some will say do not involve the wrists conscientiously and they unhinge on their own. We say rotate as needed, using the belly button as an indicator of how far to rotate the hips as needed depending on the location of the pitch. We release early on the wrist and bat angle for a ball further in the box and away and the belly button is pointed basically towards the second baseman's playing position or possibly towards the first baseman's playing position as a (RH). The action of the wrist is felt when we teach how to use the hammer. When using the lead hand the hammer is under the forearm, think elbow, knob of bat and release the hammer head to the ball. When using the top hand we say the elbow lowers toward the slot and start our tilt and turn and want the hand to be stacked over the elbow and the shoulders are turning and the hammer as is transitioning, turning (not from the wrist) and we are leading with the knob of the bat and the hammer is above the elbow and the hammer head/ bat is below the hands slightly depending on the pitch and we release. We then release the hammer head/ bat to the ball from the wrist. Someone PM'd me that the wrist turns the palm up like a waiter carrying a tray if you had the palm open. Personally I like that description! Too much thinking about the forearm turning and wrist turning. Just allow the elbow to slot as you turn and tilt and keep the elbow under the fist leading the elbows with the knob of the bat and rotate as needed seems to work for us.

I would mention we grip the bat differently in the bottom hand verses the top hand to facilitate the movement in the top hand. In my opinion this is where some of the issues are seen as to casting out and wrist rolling and not being able to direct the knob of the bat inside the path of the ball (bat control) comes from as the bat is held too far in the back of the top hand. We do not line the finger knuckles up. In the top hand the finger knuckles are off to about where my wedding ring is and the bat angles across my hand. I tie a piece of saran wrap on the index finger on the top hand as a reminder to keep the bat placement forward of the index finger pad. We do not want the index finger and thumb wrapped around the bat as we feel it restricts the movement of the bat head and does not allow the barrel to release with as much force.


Thanks Howard

OK, thanks. It is what I thought it was.

The terminology "release the hammer head to the ball" seems a bit confusing. It sounds like something is holding it and it therefore needs to be "released". If I thought about it in terms of "fire the hammer head to the ball" would I be correct or does this alter the meaning?

 

[Hitter]

OK, thanks. It is what I thought it was.

The terminology "release the hammer head to the ball" seems a bit confusing. It sounds like something is holding it and it therefore needs to be "released". If I thought about it in terms of "fire the hammer head to the ball" would I be correct or does this alter the meaning?

When teaching how to use a hammer, I made two devices using car shocks, I push the stem down into the shock housing and then try to keep it from rising and hit the long stem and replace the nuts when required. Going to try stainless next. Then I built another one that mounts horizontally to the wall so it is like actually a ball. This way they learn why the different grips work and why we grip the top hand differently than the bottom hand. In my opinion I like using the term releasing the barrel/ bat to the ball as I can feel the increase in the force when I decide to release the hammer head to drive the nail harder. I don't want them to try and push the hammer or bat. Staying connected is our intention however demonstrating how each hand works individually works very well which is why we do it that way. Because we are linear in the first part of our hand path (in my opinion) and then transition to being more rotational and I actually feel semi circular or elliptical better describes it, we are changing the directions of releasing the centripetal forces using the wrist and rotating our hips as needed based on the balls location, so I think releasing the barrel to the ball conveys the message pretty clearly to our students. We lead with the elbows and the knob of the bat leads the elbows and we release the barrel to the ball.

To your point I think the wrist do release the bat head just like the head of the hammer and you should be able to feel it when hammering a nail.

Thanks Howard

 

[softballphreak]

Thanks. Just a difference in terminology I believe. In my mind, the hammer won't hit that nail unless I fire it. But I can also sense the feeling of keeping the wrists cocked until I release them. Semantics.

I really like the new layout of this forum. Much clearer!

 

[Hitter]

Thanks. Just a difference in terminology I believe. In my mind, the hammer won't hit that nail unless I fire it. But I can also sense the feeling of keeping the wrists cocked until I release them. Semantics.

I really like the new layout of this forum. Much clearer!

One other thought I convey when I teach hitting a nail vertically with my students, gravity takes over and they feel the weight of the hammer head more from the use of the wrist. However when demonstrating horizontally I think the centripetal force of releasing has to be overcome and then the weight of the hammer head is felt more...good points!

Thanks Howard