Another Infield Fly Rule Experience

[Ivy's Dad]

I feel your pain my brother and by the way,where did they get the umps.Did they share the same brain and glasses

I feel your pain also. Last year during a rec. league game, my DD hit a line drive at 1B with the bases loaded. 1B jumps straight up and nicks the bottom of the ball with the tip of her glove. The ball lands 10 feet past the dirt in right field. My DD makes it to first base, the runner on first base makes it to third base, and the runners on second base and third base score. After the play, the opposing coach complains to the PU that it was an infield fly. The PU (who did not call infield fly during the play) rules my DD out and sends all of the runners back to their bases. It was the worst umpiring I've ever seen because:

An infield fly MUST be a catchable ball. 1B jumped and could only nick the bottom of the ball with the top of her glove. The ball was not catchable.

An infield fly MUST be a pop fly, not a line drive.

An infield fly MUST land in the infield. If the ball lands in the outfield, it is not an infield fly.

That was the closest I've ever come to swearing at an umpire. It took a lot of effort to hold my tongue.

 

[MTR]

An infield fly MUST be a catchable ball.

It should be, but it may not be. The fair batted ball must simply be able to be caught, in the umpire's judgment, with normal effort by an infielder, pitcher or catcher.

An infield fly MUST be a pop fly, not a line drive.

"Pop fly" can be a subjective issue. There is no "height" requirement, just that it not be a line drive.

An infield fly MUST land in the infield. If the ball lands in the outfield, it is not an infield fly.

This is absolutely incorrect. See above

That was the closest I've ever come to swearing at an umpire. It took a lot of effort to hold my tongue.

Good idea

 

[rockerdad21]

This call was butchered. I'm surprised you stayed in the game!

If the Infield Fly was not called at the time of the play, then it didn't happen! You can't call the IF after the fact. Based on your description, if the ball behind second was fieldable with "ordinary effort", an infield fly rule should have been called. This would have protected the runners by removing the force, which is what the IFR was designed for.

Since it wasn't called, and since the ball was dropped, there is a force at 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The fielder should have picked up the ball, stepped on second, thrown to first for a DP, and the inning would have been over.

Again, since the IF wasn't called at the time of the play, the offense can't be punished for reacting to what they correctly perceived as a "live ball".

Sounds like you had some really new/inexperienced umpires. I hope you reported the incident to the appropriate umpiring association to let them know that these guys aren't ready for Middle School ball.

 

[quincy]

I enjoy watching the reactions of Manager and coaches when the umpire is obviously wrong. They know it but there is nothing they can do about it. I don’t want DD on a Team that has a Manager that keeps repeating his point over and over again and not getting anywhere. Then they go out and complain some more once there is another break in play.

For what it is worth I have found that yelling to make your point doesn’t seem to work either.

 

[Ajaywill]

This call was butchered. I'm surprised you stayed in the game!

If the Infield Fly was not called at the time of the play, then it didn't happen! You can't call the IF after the fact. Based on your description, if the ball behind second was fieldable with "ordinary effort", an infield fly rule should have been called. This would have protected the runners by removing the force, which is what the IFR was designed for.

Since it wasn't called, and since the ball was dropped, there is a force at 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The fielder should have picked up the ball, stepped on second, thrown to first for a DP, and the inning would have been over.

Again, since the IF wasn't called at the time of the play, the offense can't be punished for reacting to what they correctly perceived as a "live ball".

Sounds like you had some really new/inexperienced umpires. I hope you reported the incident to the appropriate umpiring association to let them know that these guys aren't ready for Middle School ball.

NFHS rule 8-2-9 note: when an inflield fly is not intially called, the batter-runner is declared out if brought to the umpires attention before the next pitch

So you are incorrect....

I certainly agree that the umpires in the original post butchered how they handled the situation, but they certainly can invoke the infield fly rule after the play.

Sounds like you may not be ready for middle school ball.....

 

[rockerdad21]

AJaywill...

I believe this is a case where the letter of the rule and the interpretation of the rule might be slightly different. I know the rulebook says that the infield fly can be called after the fact and before the next pitch, but I am going to tell you that no "good" umpire is going to do this unless they are looking for a bucket of S**t.

The reason is, the offense and defense react to this situation "live" and it can't be "fixed" retroactively. It's like any other call...if it's missed, it's missed. If two umpires got together after every safe/out call and changed those based on their discussion "after the fact", the game would be unplayable.

So, just because the rulebook says that it can be invoked after the fact, doesn't mean it should be invoked after the fact.

I'm sticking with my original answer...

 

[Comp]

AJaywill...

I believe this is a case where the letter of the rule and the interpretation of the rule might be slightly different. I know the rulebook says that the infield fly can be called after the fact and before the next pitch, but I am going to tell you that no "good" umpire is going to do this unless they are looking for a bucket of S**t.

The reason is, the offense and defense react to this situation "live" and it can't be "fixed" retroactively. It's like any other call...if it's missed, it's missed. If two umpires got together after every safe/out call and changed those based on their discussion "after the fact", the game would be unplayable.

So, just because the rulebook says that it can be invoked after the fact, doesn't mean it should be invoked after the fact.

I'm sticking with my original answer...

You can stick with your original answer all you want, but the fact of the matter is the rule states the IFF can be called retroactively. And yes, I have seen instances where it has been. If the result of the play had been different, F6 was able to pick up the ball and double up the runners, the delay in the call put the offensive players in jeapordy. And calling it or not calling it is going to result in griping either way. If you dont call it, the offensive coach is going to be upset, and if you do call it, the defensive coach is going to be upset. Umpires are to make calls based on the rules, not by choosing which call is going to catch them the least amount of grief.

 

[rockerdad21]

I think you are missing the point...I never said anything about umpires making or not making calls based on whether or not they will catch grief.

In this specific instance, as it was related, the play happened and the IF was not called. It isn't made clear whether or not the defensive coach asked for it to be called after the fact, or the umpires did it on their own.

As my next batter is coming to the plate, the PU calls time and confers with the BU.

My point is that a lot of time has elapsed since the play completed and the players based their actions on the "no-call". At this point, the play is over and there isn't a "fair" way to fix it. The umpires screwed up, and the defensive player screwed up.

If asked, the umpires should have said that it wasn't, in their opinion, an infield fly, and let the play stand. That is the fairest thing to do, as it let's the play stand as it was played out live by the players. The next time it happens, the umpires should learn from this mistake and endeavor to get it right.

For argument's sake, if they applied the rule after the fact, then the batter/runner is out, and all other runners return to their bases at the time of pitch. Fine and good. But the defensive player made a mistake that the offense took advantage of because of the no-call. Changing the call after the fact nullifies the play the offensive player made and changes the game, and potentially, the outcome of the game. That's not what umpires should be doing.

Umpires should strive to apply the rules fairly to both teams, and to ultimately let the players decide the outcome of the game.

Changing calls after the fact takes that away from the players.

One final thought...I believe Major League Baseball sees it the way I do. When Jim Joyce blew what should have been the final out of a perfect game for Armando Galarraga, MLB, specifically, Bud Selig, declined to change the call.

“Personally, I agree with Selig on this one. Part of the game (as it is played now) is human error. Sometimes it works in my favor, sometimes it doesn't. Tonight it didn't.” (Jim Leyland)

 

[Quake Softball]

After reading some interesting examples I thought I would put this out for consideration/conversation.
In a game last year we had this one happen:
We are batting, One out, runners on first and second base.
Batter popups up directly behind second base, SS tries to field it (not easy, but catchable) but drops it. She spots the runner on first off the bag, retrieves the ball and overthrows the firstbaseman.
The runner on second comes around and scores, the runner on first ends up at third.
As my next batter is coming to the plate, the PU calls time and confers with the BU.
The judgement is that IFR was in effect. The batter/Runner standing on first is now out.
The runner on third is sent back to first. The runner that scored will not be put back at second, she is out because "she went into the dugout."
This was in a Middle School Tournament game (7 & 8 grade teams) being played by NFHS rules.

My question is what happened to the coach of the team on offense. Because I am pretty sure I would no longer be in the game and we would be playing under protest the rest of the game.

 

[rockerdad21]

My question is what happened to the coach of the team on offense. Because I am pretty sure I would no longer be in the game and we would be playing under protest the rest of the game.

I agree completely!