Aaron Judge's Swing Changes

[FP26]

I'm not looking to micro analyze details. This thread is about what Judge is doing different, and I am claiming that all he did was find the pattern (thanks to Rich). Now his goal is to stay in the pattern.
He may have had to change some setup stuff to get there, but only as needed.

I appreciate your response. To be honest, I have no desire to micro analyze anything either. Been there... Done that... I was just curious about the strike out difference. And it doesn't even need to be Rich dependent. Bonds was able to produce at a high level without strikeouts and I don't buy steroids as the only reason.

In regards to Rich. Kudos to him. If Judge is happy with the results, more power to him. As far as your argument for Rich, I understand, and that's fine. But I could utilize the same argument for Bobby Tewksbary (Josh Donaldson) or Craig Wallenbrock (JD Martinez) or many others out there. Is Rich having success? Sure. But so do others. I realize that some will twist my comments to be an anti-Rich theme, but the truth is I really don't care about all that 'camp' stuff. Never have. Never will. I will leave the 'camp' stuff to others...

 

[jryan15]

Gotcha. For the record, Tweskbary is a direct disciple of Rich. The mistakes Tweks made with Collaboro deviating from the pattern are well documented. His ebook, except for rear arm ER, is almost all from HI leanings. It's like one day he was posting away on HI and out of nowhere he goes dark and publishes a book...

I'm not trying to promote Rich's success without reason. For years the arguments were only philosophical, but now there is empirical evidence to support barrel turn and a rear hip focus. I think if more people jump on board, some of the teaching methods could be improved. Rich took a lot of slack over the years for all the many new and unique ways he found to try and explain the pattern in order to help specific groups of people. He literally made at least one video specifically to help my kid. Laser is another example. It didn't really help my situation, but it very much helped others. There are opportunities for improved methods. For ways to target specific deficiencies. There are gaps that could be patched, but I have seen no evidence to support changing from the underlying concepts.

For instance, I have found that the rear hip / glute dysfunction that I've discussed in great deal have a big impact on a player's ability to get into the pattern. Now as I look back, I can recall several parents/players who struggled with HI concepts were quite likely being held back by a poor glute response. FWIW when you are in the pattern, it is the glutes interacting with the rear hip that are responsible for bringing the body around. That rear leg action we all see, that is the glutes at work.

At least for softball pitching, many athletic kids who stick with it, intrinsically find the IR pattern. With hitting, it is more rare to find the pattern and then it is much more easily coached right back out (swing level, swing down to the ball, squish the bug, etc). IMO the HI pattern needs a following and a roll out like Fastpitch Foundations...

 

[Cannonball]

Deleted. It does not matter.

 

[Shawn]

Cannonball,

I agree with you. It's not right to take some random clip and address the upperbody mechanics. Although I do think there is a change in the lowerbody. I do believe in his old swing he is releasing the back hip early and in his newer clip he is more coiled in the rear hip. He is doing what TM suggests about swinging one legged, hip remains coiled.

 

[Cannonball]

Cannonball,

I agree with you. It's not right to take some random clip and address the upperbody mechanics. Although I do think there is a change in the lowerbody. I do believe in his old swing he is releasing the back hip early and in his newer clip he is more coiled in the rear hip. He is doing what TM suggests about swinging one legged, hip remains coiled.

I agree with this 100%. The question I have then, is adjustments during the swing.

 

[chrispots]

I agree with this 100%. The question I have then, is adjustments during the swing.

Oh people...those with their defensive shields ready at the go and their spears to attack...this is one of the reasons I didn't post here for a very long time...

This clip is NOT about what mechanics are better...it's about illustrating a MOVEMENT pattern change. I'm not promoting or demoting anything...LOOK AT THE CHANGE! In my simplest of words...he went from swing downhill to swinging uphill...don't like Rich or what he teaches? OK...fair enough...look up Donaldson...Tewks sees him...CP

CB...thank you for deleting your post...you are bigger than that...What BB and you accomplished is nothing to sneeze at...frankly, damn impressive...

The point of my post was 3 fold:

1. For almost 15 years, the "experts" have post these clips with esoteric terms and snotty posts\responses.

2. Regardless of what swing "system\philosophy" you believe\subscribe to, MOVEMENT PATTERN (this is different than SEQUENCE) is easily identified and it has NOTHING to do with pitch location

3. Look at MOVEMENT PATTERN changes NOT "hit results" when working on swing changes with your kid...this is my biggest mistake...

 

[Cannonball]

Oh people...those with their defensive shields ready at the go and their spears to attack...this is one of the reasons I didn't post here for a very long time...

This clip is NOT about what mechanics are better...it's about illustrating a MOVEMENT pattern change. I'm not promoting or demoting anything...LOOK AT THE CHANGE! In my simplest of words...he went from swing downhill to swinging uphill...don't like Rich or what he teaches? OK...fair enough...look up Donaldson...Tewks sees him...CP

CB...thank you for deleting your post...you are bigger than that...What BB and you accomplished is nothing to sneeze at...frankly, damn impressive...

The point of my post was 3 fold:

1. For almost 15 years, the "experts" have post these clips with esoteric terms and snotty posts\responses.

2. Regardless of what swing "system\philosophy" you believe\subscribe to, MOVEMENT PATTERN (this is different than SEQUENCE) is easily identified and it has NOTHING to do with pitch location

3. Look at MOVEMENT PATTERN changes NOT "hit results" when working on swing changes with your kid...this is my biggest mistake...

Chris, if you know my posting history, the same questions I have/deleted are the same ones I have asked for over a decade. In fact, I sometimes joked that along with the Hanson Principle I'd like to create the "Butler Principle." LOL It is because I see flaws in any comparison where we don't know the true accuracy of the exactness of the comparison. Chris, my time is running out and so, I'll leave you and others to post on hitting. The post I deleted wasn't an attack but rather my opinion having been involved in emails with one of those parties for some time and as recently as a month ago. Chris, I was not trying to pick a fight. If you think I was then I apologize.

Take care,

Darrell

 

[FP26]

This clip is NOT about what mechanics are better...it's about illustrating a MOVEMENT pattern change. I'm not promoting or demoting anything...LOOK AT THE CHANGE! In my simplest of words...he went from swing downhill to swinging uphill...don't like Rich or what he teaches? OK...fair enough...look up Donaldson...Tewks sees him...CP

.

I agree with your downhill to uphill comment. My concern is that some hitters are moving to an extreme uphill swing which creates holes that the better pitchers can exploit. My preference is still the slight upward stroke promoted by Ted Williams years ago. There is a lot of talk about 'launch angle' these days. And while I am not opposed to the discussion (I actually find some benefit in it), it is my contention that some people are overdoing it a bit.

 

[tjintx]

Gotcha. For the record, Tweskbary is a direct disciple of Rich. The mistakes Tweks made with Collaboro deviating from the pattern are well documented. His ebook, except for rear arm ER, is almost all from HI leanings. It's like one day he was posting away on HI and out of nowhere he goes dark and publishes a book...

I'm not trying to promote Rich's success without reason. For years the arguments were only philosophical, but now there is empirical evidence to support barrel turn and a rear hip focus. I think if more people jump on board, some of the teaching methods could be improved. Rich took a lot of slack over the years for all the many new and unique ways he found to try and explain the pattern in order to help specific groups of people. He literally made at least one video specifically to help my kid. Laser is another example. It didn't really help my situation, but it very much helped others. There are opportunities for improved methods. For ways to target specific deficiencies. There are gaps that could be patched, but I have seen no evidence to support changing from the underlying concepts.

For instance, I have found that the rear hip / glute dysfunction that I've discussed in great deal have a big impact on a player's ability to get into the pattern. Now as I look back, I can recall several parents/players who struggled with HI concepts were quite likely being held back by a poor glute response. FWIW when you are in the pattern, it is the glutes interacting with the rear hip that are responsible for bringing the body around. That rear leg action we all see, that is the glutes at work.

At least for softball pitching, many athletic kids who stick with it, intrinsically find the IR pattern. With hitting, it is more rare to find the pattern and then it is much more easily coached right back out (swing level, swing down to the ball, squish the bug, etc). IMO the HI pattern needs a following and a roll out like Fastpitch Foundations...

It is your personal identification of a common failure in movement mechanics that is more localized and far beyond the thinking of the 1 you are speaking of that makes you a superior mind in this discussion.
Don't disqualify yourself..... correcting that core failure is huge in moving many athletes forward in levels of play. I appreciate your work and thoughts. I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post because it doesn't matter....

 

[jryan15]

I agree with your downhill to uphill comment. My concern is that some hitters are moving to an extreme uphill swing which creates holes that the better pitchers can exploit. My preference is still the slight upward stroke promoted by Ted Williams years ago. There is a lot of talk about 'launch angle' these days. And while I am not opposed to the discussion (I actually find some benefit in it), it is my contention that some people are overdoing it a bit.

I believe "the slight upswing" path is a function of the scap-hip axis that TM has discussed. When you keep your coil and don't let your scap go, you establish a swing axis which is adjustable via tilt (not a hand or arm path).