No, as has been said, the timing on a runner crossing the plate makes no difference, no run can score on a play where the third out is a force out, just to signal whether to score the run or not (in the case of a force out, there is only one choice, not to score the run). At most levels of ball where you know the scorers are competent, an umpire will forego the signal on a force 3rd out, but it never hurts to make certain the scorer knows/remembers the situation.
3rd out runs scores
- Thread starter Radar97
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- Jun 8, 2016
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Yes I know the rule. My question is where should the PU be looking. In the case I gave above the PU was looking at the play at 3B which to me makes sense until the runner crosses 3B without being tagged/forced (but then he didn't seem to know the rule because he said the runner had crossed before the tag was applied and counted the run..which he didn't actually see because he was looking at 3B..LOL)
An umpire shall keep his eye everlastingly on the ball. Nothing can happen without the ball. On a play that could be a time play, he should have the plate in line with his view of where the play is being made so he CAN see both the runner and the timing of the tag for the third out. In this situation, the run is not going to score regardless of the timing, so the PU can keep a bit closer look at the play at 3rd in case his help is needed on a pulled foot/swipe tag/etc.
- Jun 8, 2016
- 16,118
- 113
Ok that is what I figured, thanks.
- May 29, 2015
- 3,851
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I think I know what you mean by this (referencing the specific umpire in the play provided), but I want to point out that if we are reading it literally I will wholeheartedly disagree. Lots can happen without the ball (leaving a base early, missing a base, obstruction, interference, malicious contact, etc.). BOTH umpires should not have their eyes everlastingly on the ball. That will land you in this mess in the first place.
As you said, we do our best to work ourselves into a position to see multiple things in a line. Sometimes we just have to work our head on a swivel. Sometimes we just shrug and say "sorry, $50 (or whatever the game fee is for umpires) call ... $50 puts another official on the field and we could have seen everything from the right angles."
- May 27, 2022
- 412
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Timing plays like what has been mentioned, where you are watching to see if the ball was caught AND if the runner left early, were one of the hardest things to think about when I first got into umpiring. It is so very easy to get focused on the outfielder catching the ball (especially if it is a tough catch) and then to 1) remember to try to get into position to see catch and runner, or 2) to remember to swivel your head to see the runner as quickly as possible. There is a lot you can miss if you are only watching the ball! (obstruction, missed bases, ...)
