2016 Should She play 16U or 18U?

[SoCal_Dad]

Don't be overly impressed by the number of colleges at 18U showcases because many are mainly checking on the players they've already recruited, not looking for new recruits.

Larger showcases are spread over multiple sites and coaches don't want to spend a lot of time going between sites and hassling with parking. They schedule their time at each site based on the players and teams they want to see. They're more likely to check out a player/team at a site they're already at than go off to another site just to see 1-2 players.

The pedigree of the team/org is more important than people like to admit. Besides getting into the better events and on the better fields/sites, it makes a difference when colleges are sifting through the messages they receive from players. Get on the best team where DD can be an impact player.

 

[marriard]

I have seen good results from getting players on teams that

1) Has the majority of kids still not committed (once truly committed a lot of players and families are not going to want to do the travel and spend the $$$, also a lot of committed players let off the gas a bit once they know where they are going for sure)
2) That she is going to get playing time that actually will showcase her skills (you want to be a college infielder but you are playing behind several better infielders or you are playing left field - that isn't the way to be noticed)
3) Matches her education desires. If she wants to go to a instate college why are you flying all over the place - and if a college doesn't have a program she wants it wont matter how much they loves her - it is not the place for her. If she wants to go to college X but the team isn't going to attend tournaments you know their coach is going to be at is it really the right fit?

Age of the team is somewhat irrelevant if you are doing all the outside the fence things to get recruited (contacting colleges, coaches, networking, camps, skills videos, etc, etc) and are driving attention that way. In either division you may get noticed by a coach who was really there to see someone else, but why are you leaving everything up to chance?

Here in Florida I would say MOST of the girls end up committing later - and we have a lot of college coaches watching older age groups in the showcases to fill immediate needs. Lets not forget - that 8th/9th grader might be great for you in 4 years but you as a college coach may not even be there next year, and your starting SS graduates this year and the girls you thought were going to fill that gap have either not panned out, left the team or transferred - you better find a high school senior to fill that gap real quick. Or you get a new coach for a college team and half the commits decide to decommit or 4 players transfer to follow the old coach or the old coach left the cupboard bare of talent.... Talented seniors can have a lot of choices if they play it right.

The idea that college coaches are just checking on their recruits at 18U is not what I have seen the past few years.

 

[tjintx]

Lots of great replies so far, and as I expected both sides of the fence are weighing in with strong arguments. Last fall we played all 18U showcases mostly I saw regional coaches looking to fill last minute holes. The D1-D2 coaches I talked to said they had already finished with 2015's and most of there 2016's. They were now looking for 2017's so they were at the 18U showcases to massage relationships with commits they already had and looking to see if anyone popped out at them while they were there.

Fastpitch said

Generally speaking, if the 16u team is actually playing 16u tournaments instead of 18u showcases (pgf or asa nationals as the exception) and not on the main fields at showcases then I'd say that it isn't worth playing 16u for that team if exposure is your goal. However, if its a 16u team that competes nationally and attends the top showcases then I'd say that team would probably be ok if you want exposure.

I agree with this and also take into account that a 16U team can also play 18U showcases BUT an 18U team cannot play 16U showcases.

 

[tjintx]

Marriard said,

1) Has the majority of kids still not committed (once truly committed a lot of players and families are not going to want to do the travel and spend the $$$, also a lot of committed players let off the gas a bit once they know where they are going for sure)
2) That she is going to get playing time that actually will showcase her skills (you want to be a college infielder but you are playing behind several better infielders or you are playing left field - that isn't the way to be noticed)
3) Matches her education desires. If she wants to go to a instate college why are you flying all over the place - and if a college doesn't have a program she wants it wont matter how much they loves her - it is not the place for her. If she wants to go to college X but the team isn't going to attend tournaments you know their coach is going to be at is it really the right fit?

Age of the team is somewhat irrelevant if you are doing all the outside the fence things to get recruited (contacting colleges, coaches, networking, camps, skills videos, etc, etc) and are driving attention that way. In either division you may get noticed by a coach who was really there to see someone else, but why are you leaving everything up to chance?

Great points here also IMO, DD played with a high pedrigee organization on a 14U team a few years back. DD doesn't want to go to Cali or Florida, etc. She wants to stay close(400 miles). So when I asked the coach WHY should we travel to Cali or Florida or Colorado to play showcases when She wants to play locally His response was " that's where all the coaches are, even the local coaches". It made no sense to me. Travel 1500 miles to see a coach that lives 200 miles away.$$$$

IMO getting commitments from 2016',2017,2018,s this early is beyond ridiculous. The colleges are fueling the $$$ machine to their own end and the NCAA is acting irresponsibly In allowing it. But that's another thread another time...

 

[RubberBiscuit]

My take is this:

Two main variables to consider:
1. What school(s) is your DD targeting?
2. Possibly related to the above - What talent level does DD TRULY have?

(I assume that we are talking the "same" national exposure circuits for each of these age brackets)

Case A : If your DD is a top 1% player AND wants to shoot for a top D1 school I would suggest staying in the 16U exposure circuit. Why? because I have seen that in 16U the bigger exposure tourneys the top D1 schools are looking to land the studs EARLY. But they are just looking for those prime position studs.

Case B : If your DD is looking for a small D1 on down then I would go after the 18U scene. Why? because I have seen more volume of overall of these types of coaches at the 18U events. It makes sense too with the smaller budgets that smaller schools would focus on the older more stable candidates in the 18U pool.

 

[tjintx]

I try not to be biased. I've seen too many parents oversell their kids. I actually undersell mine because I don't want my opinion to be undervalued. Is She top 1%? No. Can She grow to be close to or at that level? Yes I am taking Her to OnDeck next month to get an outside opinion. I have a pretty good feel on where She needs work and where She excels So next month I will be able to compare my thoughts with OnDeck's.

 

[maksoftball]

I try not to be biased. I've seen too many parents oversell their kids. I actually undersell mine because I don't want my opinion to be undervalued. Is She top 1%? No. Can She grow to be close to or at that level? Yes I am taking Her to OnDeck next month to get an outside opinion. I have a pretty good feel on where She needs work and where She excels So next month I will be able to compare my thoughts with OnDeck's.

I emailed them asking what they would provide us...if we would get any feedback and what sort of format their "tryout" would be, this is what they said:

Thanks for touching base with us. I appreciate your question, and given the craziness that is softball these days, it certainly is a valid question. The Tryout will be a workout. All the kids will be put through an extensive defensive workout with many reps. After that, they will do the hitting, which consists of Soft Toss and Live Batting Practice. Then we will put the Pitchers and Catchers thru a Bull Pen workout, and finally the kids will be tested for speed, quickness, and agility. There will be no teaching with the exception of little asides we might offer a particular player.

As for feedback. For the most part we don't offer feedback. We will be trying out nearly 1000 players this Spring, and offering them meaningful feedback would be nearly an impossible task. That being said, many parents persist in asking for feedback, and I give them that when I can. But the feedback is meaningful, blunt, and honest. I don't think anything else is worth either my time or yours. So, if you really wanted feedback, you probably would get it sooner or later. (We get a few hundred emails each day, so I hope you can appreciate our work load )

However, we make no promises at all when it comes to any of our events. Kids have to "play their way in" to our events; no one can pay their way in. One Dad offered us a $5000 check to put his daughter in our National Camp - he wrote the check right there - but we wouldn't do it because she wasn't quite good enough. There are a great number of benefits to being in one of our events, but we never promise anyone anything. We would be lying to you phrasing it any other way, and we don't lie.

I don't know if this helps you out or not. Please let me know if there is anything else we can do for you. Take care and best wishes.

Derek Allister
OnDeck Softball

 

[maksoftball]

I try not to be biased. I've seen too many parents oversell their kids. I actually undersell mine because I don't want my opinion to be undervalued. Is She top 1%? No. Can She grow to be close to or at that level? Yes I am taking Her to OnDeck next month to get an outside opinion. I have a pretty good feel on where She needs work and where She excels So next month I will be able to compare my thoughts with OnDeck's.

And are you going to the Houston or Dallas "Tryout"? Have not decided yet if I will sign DD up...

 

[SoCal_Dad]

As for feedback. For the most part we don't offer feedback. We will be trying out nearly 1000 players this Spring, and offering them meaningful feedback would be nearly an impossible task. That being said, many parents persist in asking for feedback, and I give them that when I can. But the feedback is meaningful, blunt, and honest. I don't think anything else is worth either my time or yours. So, if you really wanted feedback, you probably would get it sooner or later. (We get a few hundred emails each day, so I hope you can appreciate our work load )

IOW, they don't automatically provide feedback, but probably will if you follow up with them. It is a tryout and that is typically what happens when you try out for a team.

Seems like they're missing out on a business opportunity that would also make life easier for them - offer an evaluation report for an additional charge.

 

[maksoftball]

Seems like they're missing out on a business opportunity that would also make life easier for them - offer an evaluation report for an additional charge.

I totally agree. I don't know about other parents, but I absolutely hate waiting in line to talk to the coaches...