internal rotation question

The internal rotation thread is the best thread I have read in a long time and the info provided is great. I have a question about the drill that Boardmember says is the best drill in fast pitch. This is the drill where you start with the ball and palm of the hand facing the sky and the show it and throw it. I have watched many videos of high level pitchers and most if not all seem to be somewhere between this position and the ball/palm facing 3rd base. Is the ball/palm pointed the sky just an over emphasized que or is the ball/palm facing 3rd base OK if you are still internally rotating you forearm and wrist.

coachdan said:

The internal rotation thread is the best thread I have read in a long time and the info provided is great. I have a question about the drill that Boardmember says is the best drill in fast pitch. This is the drill where you start with the ball and palm of the hand facing the sky and the show it and throw it. I have watched many videos of high level pitchers and most if not all seem to be somewhere between this position and the ball/palm facing 3rd base. Is the ball/palm pointed the sky just an over emphasized que or is the ball/palm facing 3rd base OK if you are still internally rotating you forearm and wrist.

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If you are starting at the bottom and raising the hand/arm to the 9:00 postion (some call it 3:00), then back down to "throw", IE modified "Show and Throw", then facing third is is marginably acceptable because there will be a limited amount of internal rotation to throw the ball.......it's best to face the ball up..........

However, if you are performing the full "show it and throw it" drill, raising the hand up the backside to the top of the head and returning down to throw, the ball should face forward toward the catcher at the top to be an effective drill that maximized internal rotation into the throw........

You cannot "show it" to the catcher unless it (the ball) is facing forward.......Part of the importance of this drill is to train internal rotation because as the ball starts down the circle facing the sky, you must internally rotate to "throw" the ball.........With the ball facing third at the top, you take the chance of the throwing hand/arm externally rotating on top of the ball on the way down.......a push.......AND........A DISASTER!

Rock it up the backside, and create a "C" shape in the upper arm/forearm/wrist at the top by allowing the elbow joint to flex (bend) slightly......as you "Show it (the ball) to the Catcher".......Bring it down maitaining the flex in the elbow and........"Throw it to the Catcher".....

....."Show it....and Throw it"........

should the pitcher be fully open, or slightly closed for this drill, say 45 degrees?

Mike

Mike said:

should the pitcher be fully open, or slightly closed for this drill, say 45 degrees?

Mike

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Slightly closed from fully open.....Not quite 45 degrees (facing the baseline vs. the base)........

Keeping the upper arm/elbow (humerus) slightly forward of a parallel line with the shoulders line at the top (show it) will place the ball outside the shoulder socket......this eliminates the stress on the socket. The pitcher should be able to see the ball in her hand at the top, outside the shoulder socket........

Thanks Boardmember you have been most helpful.

I completely agree and understand what you are talking about but you should see the reaction I get when tell pitchers/parents that the ball should not be pushed down the back side of the circle and then snapped up. They look at me as if I was a crazy man. I guess that just shows how many pitcher are being trained the wrong way.

Thanks Again, Dan

Would the arm action be the same for throwing other pitches such as the rise. It seem to me that the Rise ball could not be thrown with the internal rotation of the forearm and wrist because you have to stay under the ball to spin it backwards. It seems more natural if the palm was pointed to 3rd base and hold this position through release a turn the with the finger creating backspin. Thoughts?

“As you move your arm backwards up the circle, the upper arm is allowed to further externally rotate to a "palm to the sky" (supinated) position. You have now REVERSE CHAINED to the most critical position in fastpitch.......POSITION 3......

Note: IMO, anyone being taught to throw a ball underhand should be started from this 3:00 POSITION 3, "palm to the sky".........

"SHOW IT, AND THROW IT"...........THIS IS THE BEST DRILL IN FASTPITCH”

BM,

Great stuff but please provide clarification for me. You seem to advocate externally rotating to a palm up position as a starting point for internal rotation, but also describe that same point as “show it”, which to me are two different positions: one with the palm up, under the ball, completely externally rotated, the other with hand behind and fingers on top of the ball in what I understand as the “show it” position. I tried and failed to attach two photos of Jenny Finch in the “show it” position rather than palm up. I have always taught “show it” and would think that rotation past that point would be counter productive due to forearm tension, but I am open to change if you can help me see what I am missing here.

Again, thanks for the insights.

Steve

My interpretation; I think you are one position off. said another way when the ball is behind you, towards 2nd base what I would call 9:00, you should have palm to the sky. Back chain to the next postion, 12:00, you have Show it, ball pointing to catcher hand on back side. 2nd best drill is palm to the sky. Best drill is show it and throw it. Two different drills at different starting position within the arm circle.

I went back to a 2007 DartFish that ClubK sponsored at the CWS. Sure enough, palm to the sky and she was throwing hard for her age. Now several pitching coaches later, point the ball to 2nd with hands on top she has slowed down. HS photos show still palm up but I am afraid the wave it drills have affected the timing. I'll let you know in a month now that I am thinking the world really is round after everyone has told us it was flat.

TowPilot said:

My interpretation; I think you are one position off. said another way when the ball is behind you, towards 2nd base what I would call 9:00, you should have palm to the sky. Back chain to the next postion, 12:00, you have Show it, ball pointing to catcher hand on back side. 2nd best drill is palm to the sky. Best drill is show it and throw it. Two different drills at different starting position within the arm circle.

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Exactly..........

Release

Ok..Im going to try to phrase my question as well as some of you do, and I know Im getting way way detaild but here goes. As your arm moved down the circle...palm up and your tricept touches your side. When reverse chaining its is said

" Move the forearm and upper arm away from the side of the body so the hand is 4 - 6 inches out form the thigh. Straight out from the thigh. Now externally totate the foupper arm in the shoulder socket, so the elbow is facing inward and the forearm and palm are facing outward away fromt he body"

OK I get this.. But does this imply that when Forward chaining when the tricept touches the side they hand/forearm actually move away from the side of they body? Or is it that the elbow actually touches the side where the upper arm is behind the body (from the catchers view) and the hand doesnt really move away from the body? Does the arm ever actually straighten out completly? Forearm/elbow/upper arm? Does the hand actually away from the hip a few inches then come in on release or is the hand/elbow stay on the same circle path and end hand to hip?

Hope that makes any sense at all...Just trying to see if the arm rolls through or with the elbow bent more of a sidearm move....but not as severr only inches away from the thigh?