Practice versus game batting

fivepotsogold · May 20, 2008

hitting, travel....

Mark Wrote:
"Yep. All Stars. My advice is work hard through the off season and move on up to travel where you only have to find one coach who you like who thinks your kid can play is my advice. There are problems there too but you have choices."

I'm not sure that my daughter is skilled enough for Travel ... yet.
She could be with more time playing ...
............problem lies in that she can never develop enough in any position as she is bounced around so much.

Even though she quietly does her job with almost no errors.... she pales in comparison to those who are bigger and swing harder, run harder (and they strike out almost as much as she does and make more errors). A lot does come does to appearance.

We also have 5 kids (3-14) ... so money time are also in short supply.

We do plan to keep working on stuff......
hopefully we'll have a nice summer routine that can be adapted to our basement (like a cave, but better than doing nothing).
Fall ball is fun and she will play that as well....

I will be looking or aids and drills to do .....

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!

ang4yanks · May 20, 2008

My husband and I have always believed rec and travel ball are two completely different arenas. When we decided our children were looking for more competitive play and had outgrown rec, we made the switch. Where travel ball and rec intersect, there always seems to be controversy. Travel teams use rec programs to scrimmage. I strongly oppose this philosophy. My son played rec one year, and there was a boy on his team who had a very slight case of autism. The boy was able to participate, hit the ball, catch an occassional ball and have fun, and rec was a great thing for him. To see him come to bat against a travel ball pitcher saddened me. Travel teams can scrimmage other travel teams or school teams. I remember feeling the way you do in that my young children who were trying to learn the theory and fundamentals of the game saw little action because of strong pitchers. My husband and I, at that time, decided for our family that we were not going to play rec and travel simultaneously. Rec teams made up of mostly travel players take the fun out of it for everyone (except an egotistical coach, maybe). Blowouts...not fun winning that way, not fun losing that way, and are no fun to watch. My dd likes a competitive game. She hated Middle School ball because either our conference is weak or middle school isn't as competitive as travel ball.

My grandmother used to say, "To each his own."

Ang

Mark H · May 20, 2008

fivepotsogold said:
"I'm not talking about sitting her down as punishment. "

I thought you meant that if she was not swinging due to "girl attitude".
No...she's just so timid and not agressive at all......odd that she pitches pretty well...but the running and swinging are a challenge..

Last night was a good start...struck out swinging, fly ball swinging (full count), walk, and a shot to third base line outfield.
Stole her first non pass ball saturday and got herself out of a pickle last night by being smart.....

Great. Make sure you are effusive with praise when she takes a great rip whether she makes contact or not.

fivepotsogold said:
"We have actually been talking about the effort she needs to make to get on an All Star team (she says she wants this) and to make the Middle school team next year.
Basically that she has to come out of her shell and go after it..

That's what first motivated my daughter at the same age and she ended up being all conference in a small college before it was done. The hard work she put in to make the all star team ended up vaulting her right past that level. A 2007 graduate she recruited (she is now a college coach at a small private school) was the size your daughter is right now but she was a vacuum cleaner at second base and had one of the dozen best swings I've ever seen on a high school age girl. She would have been a big deal but she wanted to go to University of Texas all her life and so she gave the game up...but she could have been all something or other IMO. When it comes to hitting, there is a HUGE opportunity to separate yourself from the pack in fp.

fivepotsogold said:
"At first she thought she was too fat (5'1", 110 pounds) .....but after watching some of the College softball games, she got that it wasn't about size....more about her pushing herself.....
(she isn't fat ... mostly puberty driven changes this last year).

See above.

fivepotsogold said:
"Wondering what drill we could do with batting to increase speed to "5 frames".

How consistently do you want to work and how high do you want to get?

fivepotsogold said:
"Basketball on a tee? .

Don't like it myself but done as a stop swing drill I can live with it.

fivepotsogold said:
"Would rapid sift toss help....just to get her swinging...or would that throw off a good form swing?.

I heartily agree with your conclusion about throwing off good form.

fivepotsogold said:
"She just turned 12 ... don't want to overdo it...we only have a few weeks for All Stars prep (so we may have to hope they need a 3rd pitcher as I am unwilling to push her into the ground for 2-3 weeks as that probably isn't enough time and neither of us will be happy).....but we have 8 months for Middle School....

Yeah, I know. But the ones who have the fire in the belly will push you rather than you pushing them. That counts for more than talent IME. Of course you are right about 2-3 weeks not being enough. As far as it being too early, she's only three maybe two years away from college coaches starting to watch if she's in the right tournaments on a travel team. It's not really as early as you think. You will blink and she will be going over college choices with you. Blink again and she will be introducing you to "the guy". Enjoy these years. They go by so quickly.

fivepotsogold said:
"My 9 year old will easily make the 9/10, but she doesn't want to as she doesn't want to have this coach again. He keeps bugging her to play catcher (a natural, but isn't really into it so I'm not pushing it). She can play any position well (pitching a challenge ... but we'll get there)..

Make sure she enjoys it the next few years or she won't be playing much longer IME.

fivepotsogold said:
"So...any hitting drill to help with my 12 year old would be great.....
how many times per week is worthwhile too.

.

It's not really about a drill. Sure there are drills bue any drill can be perverted and become counter productive. It's about you and her learning together with a community of people who have been through this before supporting you as you learn and progress and post video clips for comment. If you really are going to work several times a week at getting better I suggest Steve Englishbey's website, community and materials. That's where I'd send you or my brother for hitting. Here is where I'd send you for fitness and conditioning as I've been recommending Marc for I don't know how many years but for hitting, it's Englishbey IME.

fivepotsogold · May 20, 2008

Travel versus rec

I agree that they should remain separate.

My personal opinion is that the kids are are still "developing" should have a forum in which they can play. You really don't know who will click and turn into a super ball player so leaving them out too early may result in weaker older leagues.

Last year my daughter stuggled quite a bit.....huge difference this year.....still have a lot to do......but she rarely walks anyone and is picking up speed....she has a really good arm outfield to infield, 3rd to first. Last year she couldn't catch a fly ball...now she can catch most anything (lots of high tennis balls...she could do that for hours).

Some of the "super stars" from last year have kind stayed at the same level.....no way to know where any will be in a year or two so work with all....
part of growth/life is improving and plateau's....

I love to hear some of these coaches talk about how great this kid is or that kid .... my husband and I chuckle...
..as they walk away mystified about why they got killed with all their Stars playing!

Anyway....my daughter wants to play...I don't think she cares where ... she is willing to work at it ... if we have to look at Travel we will.

Next year I will coach a team ...

I will be doing as much as we can to have fun and work on skills!

Ken Krause · May 20, 2008

Great answer

Mark H said:
Help her define success, for the moment, as putting a good swing on a good pitch. Or maybe just having a good swing. Lots of young girls think the worst thing in the world is to strike out and we reinforce this with things like "Way to put it in play". Tell her she has your full permission to swing hard. If it gets bad enough, in the interests of development, you can really get her attention a couple of times by sitting her down after a bad low effort swing puts a ball in play. Hopefully it wouldn't come to that but it would get her attention. I've gotten young girls and boys to laugh offering to give them a written permission slip to swing hard to show their coach. Sometimes that has helped. Nothing cookie cutter here you just have to find out what their thinking and motivation is and figure out how to coach that particular player.

Now let me back up. Knowing something with a dry swing is one thing. Knowing it on a tee is another. Knowing it on soft toss, then front toss, then bp and then a live game is another and another. You can't expect a kid, with some exceptions, to learn something on a tee and take it to the game. Habits are habits. When they can demostrate their new skill on a tee, take it up one level of stress at a time always being ready to revert to the last known level of competence before starting to work your way up again. As any pilot instructor will tell you, under stress, we all tend to revert to our primary training. In this case, their primary training has resulted in whatever bad habits you coaches are fixing and the stress is the game situation. It's not usually a case of doing a few good reps on a tee and then taking it to the game.

Having said all that, it sounds like you are working hard and are very serious about getting better with a bunch of young ones. How serious and committed are you and how eager and fired up a bunch of students do you have?

Mark, that's a great answer to this question. Sometimes the problem isn't anything more than how success is defined. I have nothing to add -- for once!

fivepotsogold · May 20, 2008

HItting, Mark, Thank you

Mark H said:
Great. Make sure you are effusive with praise when she takes a great rip whether she makes contact or not.

That's what first motivated my daughter at the same age and she ended up being all conference in a small college before it was done. The hard work she put in to make the all star team ended up vaulting her right past that level. A 2007 graduate she recruited (she is now a college coach at a small private school) was the size your daughter is right now but she was a vacuum cleaner at second base and had one of the dozen best swings I've ever seen on a high school age girl. She would have been a big deal but she wanted to go to University of Texas all her life and so she gave the game up...but she could have been all something or other IMO. When it comes to hitting, there is a HUGE opportunity to separate yourself from the pack in fp.

Definitely tell her what she did great...she mostly rolls her eyes.. "Mom!" in exasperated tone...but I know it encourages her.
Sometimes she doesn't feel as good as other players....I just say that we can work on it together and that you don't want to bloom to early...steady pace will yield good results.

See above.

How consistently do you want to work and how high do you want to get?

We pitch 3-4 times per week 30-55 minutes.....we can certainly do hitting if it is something we can do in basement or yard.
We have thre girls (12, 9.5, 3.5)(two boys too)

Don't like it myself but done as a stop swing drill I can live with it.
Ok..if we can spend our time more effectively than we should.

I heartily agree with your conclusion about throwing off good form.
I figured that.

Yeah, I know. But the ones who have the fire in the belly will push you rather than you pushing them. That counts for more than talent IME. Of course you are right about 2-3 weeks not being enough. As far as it being too early, she's only three maybe two years away from college coaches starting to watch if she's in the right tournaments on a travel team. It's not really as early as you think. You will blink and she will be going over college choices with you. Blink again and she will be introducing you to "the guy". Enjoy these years. They go by so quickly.

Although I usually ask about going out to practice, she never hesitates as she gets lost in books or homework!
She never says no or groans...

Make sure she enjoys it the next few years or she won't be playing much longer IME.
Yeah, the 9 does Travel Soccer/Premier too....she likes softball...but her nature is to be in the middle of the action.....pitcher 1st....she actually doesn't mind catcher, just that he bugs her to do it....he wants her for his All Star catcher.
I think because she is just a very energetic kid, soccer will not bore her..4 innings of outfield yesterday just about KILLED her.

.

It's not really about a drill. Sure there are drills bue any drill can be perverted and become counter productive. It's about you and her learning together with a community of people who have been through this before supporting you as you learn and progress and post video clips for comment.

If you really are going to work several times a week at getting better I suggest Steve Englishbey's website, community and materials. That's where I'd send you or my brother for hitting. Here is where I'd send you for fitness and conditioning as I've been recommending Marc for I don't know how many years but for hitting, it's Englishbey IME.

YES YES...
no idea how high she will go...but if she is successful she will continue...she talks about college, softball....we'll see...she's in 6th grade!
I will look up this.

fivepotsogold · May 20, 2008

Englishbey brother boys versus girls

OK....

Englishbey is a baseball site....
....no difference betwwen mechanic of girl/softball versus boy/baseball?

Could this be used for my 6 yr old son as well as all three of my daughters?

Who is your brother?

ang4yanks · May 20, 2008

Mark H says, "I've gotten young girls and boys to laugh offering to give them a written permission slip to swing hard to show their coach. Sometimes that has helped. Nothing cookie cutter here you just have to find out what their thinking and motivation is and figure out how to coach that particular player."

Mark H...

Love it! That is absolutely brilliant...there are areas in all of our lives we need written permission slips to fail. That's a keeper!

Ang

Mark H · May 20, 2008

fivepotsogold said:
OK....

Englishbey is a baseball site....
....no difference betwwen mechanic of girl/softball versus boy/baseball?

Could this be used for my 6 yr old son as well as all three of my daughters?

Who is your brother?

Yes, no difference. You will find lots of females and males working with Englishbey. Brother?

Salt City Crush Coach · May 21, 2008

Rec Vs Travel

I coach a 12u travel team that also participates in 2 different Rec leagues in our area. I do use Rec games as a scrimmage game but I've made it clear to my "starters" that the Rec leagues are for developing our younger players and novice pitchers and catchers (We have a lot of 10 and 11 yr olds). I feel that travel teams that participate in Rec just to blow everyone away dosen't do any good to their own team or any other team in the league. Rec is where my developing players get their starts as they don't get many innings in the super competitive world of tournament softball. Only one or two AB a game.

Practice versus game batting

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