Delayed infield fly rule call

[SoulFY]

It's a mess and one group or the other will be ticked off whatever is done to try to fix it. I'm no umpire, but I believe one would have to stick by the rule as much as possible rather than try to discern what is most fair. If runners advanced in the chaos, you can't put them back. If runners are thrown out, they are out.
Part of it is knowing the rule whether it is verbalized during the play or not.
Again, an embarrassing mess when it happens.

Well the rule actually does specify that you are allowed to call an infield fly after the play is over. You are then by the rules allowed to rectify the situation as you have probably placed one team or the other in jeopardy.

You certainly wouldnt keep outs if you decided that the play should have been an infield fly and runners get thrown out because they didnt run and stayed on the base.

 

[EdLovrich]

You would need to overturn any force outs that you called, because there COULDN'T have been any force outs. Any advances would stand, and tag outs would stand. OP said the SS misjudged the ball, did she completely misjudge it or did it hit her glove or body and it then dropped to the ground? The reason I ask it that way is because you MIGHT be able to get by with ruling an intentionally dropped fly ball.

Ruling : NFHS 8.2.9 Batter-runner is out when: she hits an infield fly Note: When an infield fly is not initially called, the batter runner is declared out if brought to the umpire's attention before the next pitch.

That is all that the NFHS rule book says about it and I DO NOT like it. Let's presume Runners 1b and 2b no out. Fly ball to 3B. not called IFF misplayed by fielder, the runners are not advancing because they need to stay home to tag up.. Fielder retrieves ball, steps on third, throws to 2B covering second, both runner called out on force. (This is exactly the situation the IFF is designed to prevent). Now, DEFENSIVE coach comes out (as in the OP) and asks about the IFF. By the rulebook, we now call the BR out. But the note doesn't say what we do with the other runners, nor does it say we CAN do anything with them

 

[The Man In Blue]

@EdLovrich ... keep digging into the book. I think the rules tell us exactly what we should do. We call the batter out by the rule you cited and then ...

Under the duties of the umpire ...
10.2.3.m. rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

We would need to determine what jeopardy we caused. That is the sticky part. Reversing the "force outs" is obvious. What about any runner ahead of the force outs? I suppose you would have to look at the actual play -- that is to say, did the fielder start to make a play on the lead runner and then change course for the double play instead? In that case, I would feel I should put the runner back also. If there was no attempted/initiated play, then I'm good with leaving any advanced runners.

 

[EdLovrich]

I agree with this @The Man In Blue n Blue the way I stated the problem. Now, let's make it stickier. Same set up, same 3B drops the fly, this timethe runner's are advancing (at their own risk per the rule) 3B recovers the ball TAGS the runner from 2b, throw to 2B who TAGS the runner advancing from first (at her own risk per the rule). BR is safe at first. NOW defensive coach comes out and asks about the IFF. BR out, end of inning and you have a shirt show that you really can't justify changing.

 

[canyonjoe]

I agree with what the umpires are saying but in my opinion the rule should be that the umps can only call it retroactively if not calling it caused the offense to be put into a bad situation. Otherwise if you can't catch the ball you don't deserve a free out. I always appreciate umpires who call it out loud and clear.

 

[EdLovrich]

Otherwise if you can't catch the ball you don't deserve a free out.

Can't catch the ball as in you misplay it, or can't catch the ball because it was not catchable with ordinary effort? Makes a difference as the second means IFF was not a consideration.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

You would need to overturn any force outs that you called, because there COULDN'T have been any force outs. Any advances would stand, and tag outs would stand. OP said the SS misjudged the ball, did she completely misjudge it or did it hit her glove or body and it then dropped to the ground? The reason I ask it that way is because you MIGHT be able to get by with ruling an intentionally dropped fly ball.

Ruling : NFHS 8.2.9 Batter-runner is out when: she hits an infield fly Note: When an infield fly is not initially called, the batter runner is declared out if brought to the umpire's attention before the next pitch.

[snip]

Keep reading, specifically NFHS 8-2-10 and the Penalty.

 

[SoulFY]

I agree with this @The Man In Blue n Blue the way I stated the problem. Now, let's make it stickier. Same set up, same 3B drops the fly, this timethe runner's are advancing (at their own risk per the rule) 3B recovers the ball TAGS the runner from 2b, throw to 2B who TAGS the runner advancing from first (at her own risk per the rule). BR is safe at first. NOW defensive coach comes out and asks about the IFF. BR out, end of inning and you have a shirt show that you really can't justify changing.

Would be tough to tell what to do. Would have to see what the runners are doing. If I see both runners just standing at the base not looking to run but then all of a sudden just start running after they see the ball drop and especially if no infield fly is called, i would be probably putting the runners back to the base and getting the one out. But hey if they are half way off the base and looking to try to advance and are going right when the ball is touched or bobbled and dropped then might be keeping the outs.

 

[Lemond]

@EdLovrich ... keep digging into the book. I think the rules tell us exactly what we should do. We call the batter out by the rule you cited and then ...

Under the duties of the umpire ...
10.2.3.m. rectify any situation in which an umpire’s decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

We would need to determine what jeopardy we caused. That is the sticky part. Reversing the "force outs" is obvious. What about any runner ahead of the force outs? I suppose you would have to look at the actual play -- that is to say, did the fielder start to make a play on the lead runner and then change course for the double play instead? In that case, I would feel I should put the runner back also. If there was no attempted/initiated play, then I'm good with leaving any advanced runners.

By definition, all runners would have to be in a forced situation without the IFF called. So rectifying the delayed call would be the same for all outs. Or did I miss something?

 

[EdLovrich]

And actually, this is the 'out' for the umpires. If the SS did not catch the ball, and the IFF was not called, the umpires simply say, "In my judgment, the SS was not able to catch the ball with ordinary effort." This is obviously true, because she DID NOT catch the ball with ANY amount of effort. Comes down to the DEFENSE has no standing in coming out and questioning why IFF was NOT called.