Topspin Vs Bulletspin, Which is Faster?

[JJsqueeze]

Gotta bump this one up--great thread!

Hoping Coach Balswick stops by again soon to announce the release of his new video, not to mention sharing more of his experience and perspectives. Not only a master instructor; but a master student of the game...

My avatar ripped your avatar's arm off in 1976.

Nice Bump- it would be nice if Rich dropped by again.

 

[Ken B]

If granted a reunion show, my avatar would be glad for round two. Keep in mind, sasquatch's live twice as long as humans... My avatar, even with only one arm, is only about 40 years old.

Balswick and sasquatch have a one thing in common in that sightings are rare. At least Balswick has a good excuse (adding the finishing touches to the long-awaited video!)

 

[corlay]

(adding the finishing touches to the long-awaited video!)

Here's a preview:
Six Million Dollar Bionic Man vs. Bionic Bigfoot Action Figure, 1977 Kenner Toys - YouTube

 

[Ken B]

I completely forgot bigfoot was an alien robot!

 

[Rocketech1]

I'm sure the last thing you guys want to see is video evidence of bullet spin from a high level pitcher..........It just kills the party I know.........

I understand Rick and Bill's assertion that pitchers shouldn't be taught bullet spin as a "pitch" in an arsenal.........However.......It's my opinion that bullet spin is a RESULT of high level mechanics left to "do what they do"........Without manipulation of lace direction for directed movement up/down/left/right.........

Bullet spin occurs when the ball is released mid-snap or mid-I/R as the thumb comes off the ball half way through the I/R delivery, and the fingers continue under and through release..........

It is my educated opinion that IF you are training PROPER whip........Void of insistance that the ball spin 6-12 during the whip.......Bullet spin can/will be the result more often then not..........

It's great to say "I don't teach bullet spin".......By simply insisting on 6-12 rotation during the whipping process.......But I question that insistence during the early training process of throwing a ball underhand.......I do NOT insist on 6-12 rotation until I know that proper mechanics are in place..........Then it's simply a matter of manipulation to 6-12..........

You're kidding yourself if you think "unchecked" manipulation WITH I/R doesn't result in some level of "bullet spin" at the highest levels.......

Pay close attention to the black line........The thumb is directly on it......And it's facing away from the body......And it never moves as the thumb comes off the ball........This is a bullet spin pitch from Sarah Pauley........When she isn't throwing rise/drop/curve/change..........

That spin doesn't have to be taught........Because it is a RESULT of a high level whipping motion........WITHOUT manipulation...........

Bumping this thread as some posts are directly related to the other IR v Bullet Spin thread.

BTW - in support of Boardmember's advice to teach bullet spin first and then move on to 6-12 spin, there is a very successful pitching coach in my area, Kat Slaten-Ayala, that teaches arm whip mechanics that result in bullet spin fastballs as the first pitch. Once "perfected" she then works off of those mechanics for movement pitches (e.g. 6-12 drop balls). This is in sharp contrast to most of the other PCs in the area that teach HE mechanics and 6-12 spin from Day 1.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Bumping this thread as some posts are directly related to the other IR v Bullet Spin thread.

BTW - in support of Boardmember's advice to teach bullet spin first and then move on to 6-12 spin, there is a very successful pitching coach in my area, Kat Slaten-Ayala, that teaches arm whip mechanics that result in bullet spin fastballs as the first pitch. Once "perfected" she then works off of those mechanics for movement pitches (e.g. 6-12 drop balls). This is in sharp contrast to most of the other PCs in the area that teach HE mechanics and 6-12 spin from Day 1.

Using this approach, a pitcher could have a drop, rise, and, hold your hats,..............................a fastball!

 

[Ken B]

Bumping this classic thread!

 

[Rooster's Dad]

Bumping this classic thread!

Oh how I pine for the good ol' days. Learned sooooo much from this site.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I guess this is where you and i have a difference of opinion. I don't know Sarah, I don't know what's she's throwing in this clip or what she's demonstrating. And as blasphemous as it is to have any thing to say about a "high level pitcher" I would say that if she whipped her elbow MORE, the bullet spin would disappear. Personally, I teach 6/12 rotation along with the mechanics, not separately because I believe they go hand in hand. I have had many students who had bullet spin that lost it when they were instructed to whip or snap their elbow harder at the release. When done, the wrist and the fingers follow naturally. I don't know how that effects IR but it's what do in my lessons and what I do personally.

I realize there are people who will say "how can one be critical of Sarah Pauly, she's one of the best!!" And I agree with those people, she is one of the best. But even the best sometimes do things they shouldn't. Often, they are good DESPITE what they do, not because of it. There's a lot of examples of this. I know my glove hand doesn't stay directly on top of my leg, and it was pointed out the other day. And God forbid anyone do anything "wrong" with their feet!!!

Again though, I'm saying this blind because I don't know what Sarah is doing here. And it may just be a difference of opinion but I get pitchers to exaggerate their elbow whip and it usually straightens bullet spin out... this is assuming that there isn't another factor in why the bullet spin occurs.

Bill

Bill, I know this is an old post ... but you have been relatively consistent over time in advocating elbow snap. Can you share how you go about getting pitchers to improve their elbow snap?

 

[Ken B]

Buddahbump