Illegal Pitch??

[zaboha]

This weekend we played a doubleheader against the same team. I hoped to upload a video but this forum doesn't allow video file format. In the first game their pitcher came out with what I called a "double-pump" wind-up. She would bring her hands up in front of her face with the ball and glove touching but without the ball entering her mitt. She then pumped backward past her hip. She then brought he hands forward and placed the ball in the glove and then back down past her hip again and then did her windup to deliver the pitch. The entire wind-up from the beginning to her making the pitch was all one fluid motion. I respectfully protested to the umpire after her first pitch and he said he didn't see anything wrong with it. At the beginning of the second game at the meeting at the plate I asked for clarification and re-iterated that I believed the pitch to be illegal. At this point the umpire was becoming a bit gruff and the opposing coaching staff became irritated. I always remained polite and respectful. The umpire was ruling that she was presenting the second time her hands came together and the first part of her movement was irrelevant. I wanted to get some feedback on the ASA rule. I was under the impression that once your hand was moving forward you can no longer go backwards or else you are simulating the pitch. This is in my opinion no different then when a pitcher would practice their windup while standing on the rubber.

Any opinions are very much appreciated
Coach Rick
14U

PS if I can figure our a way to upload a series of pics I'll try to do that.

 

[inde53546]

Only post the pics or video if you can make the player anonymous blocking out team name and face etc. since it is not your child. I do believe as described that is illegal.

 

[Ken Krause]

I think inde means the pitch as described is illegal, not posting the video.

 

[corlay]

The "pitch" doesn't technically begin until the hands come together (1-10sec)

So she can do cartwheels out there beforehand if she wants to.
Hands do not have to be stationary when the hands come together, either.

So... I think what you've described is an illegal pitch.
Only because the ball/hand and glove touch on the first "pump".

If she didn't actually touch them, then the pitch would be perfectly legal.
A lot of unnecessary movement on the pitcher's part,
but legal none the less.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I've seen our coaches complain about missed calls, a bad strike zone, they are not shy about confronting umps. But I have never seen them say word one to umps about illegalities in opposing pitchers. Even when they are blatant.

Setting aside the illegality for a minute, because it does sound illegal to me, do you think this gave her an advantage or messed up your hitters? I have seen a pretty close inverse correlation between the quality of a teams hitting and the frequency of them complaining about opposing pitchers being illegal. I think if any of our girls told our coach that she struck out because of a double pump or the fact that the pitcher didn't keep her hands together for 1 second then our coach would probably have some choice words for her.

 

[zaboha]

Here are still frames from the video. 1 - hands come together no always touching and not "in the glove". 2 - pumps to beyond her hip. 3 - brings hands back together appears to be in the glove. 4 - pumps again beyond the hip. 5 - second forward motion. 6 - delivers pitch. I highlighted the location of the ball on 2 & 6

 

[zaboha]

I guess too many attachments. here is 6

 

[zaboha]

I've seen our coaches complain about missed calls, a bad strike zone, they are not shy about confronting umps. But I have never seen them say word one to umps about illegalities in opposing pitchers. Even when they are blatant.

Setting aside the illegality for a minute, because it does sound illegal to me, do you think this gave her an advantage or messed up your hitters? I have seen a pretty close inverse correlation between the quality of a teams hitting and the frequency of them complaining about opposing pitchers being illegal. I think if any of our girls told our coach that she struck out because of a double pump or the fact that the pitcher didn't keep her hands together for 1 second then our coach would probably have some choice words for her.

During the first inning they faced her (she came in as a relief pitcher) our hitters struggled with this wind-up. We had 5 runned the previous pitcher. We scored 0 runs in the her first inning and 2 the following inning and 4 the next inning. They won by one run. We made some adjustments but it makes hitters tense at first. Our hitters were not complaining but it was clear it had a effect.

 

[Comp]

If the hands touch together in picture #1 then she is illegal for not only double touching but stopping and reversing forward motion. If the hands are not touching together in photo 1 then she is legal.

 

[JJsqueeze]

During the first inning they faced her (she came in as a relief pitcher) our hitters struggled with this wind-up. We had 5 runned the previous pitcher. We scored 0 runs in the her first inning and 2 the following inning and 4 the next inning. They won by one run. We made some adjustments but it makes hitters tense at first. Our hitters were not complaining but it was clear it had a effect.

Not the most refined motion in 14U to be sure. It does look illegal as Comp said. But judging from her motion my guess is she just threw so slow and inaccurate that your girls struggled with an effectively wild slow pitcher and not the motion itself.