How do we balance pitching coach vs. team coach?

[SoftballMama]

My 9 yr old DD joined an ASA team in January. Prior to that she had only played rec ball, with mama coaching. She goes to a pitching coach that we like (I verified his stance on internal rotation months ago LOL) . ASA coach disagrees with PC has tried to change several things about DD's pitching. DD wants to please ASA coach to get playing time. Last night was a difficult one. Coach asked her to start her wind up and stop so she could see how DD was pulling the ball back. Per PC my DD pulls the arm straight back wtih the ball facing 2nd base. Coach wants her to pull her shoulder blades back and have the ball facing home plate. DD did it (what a trooper) but afterwards said to me, "mom that is just not right!" What do we do?

 

[sluggers]

Well, I've written many times about the "smile and nod". To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, the "smile and nod" is a little childish and stupid, but then so are most team coaches. There is no point in arguing with him--you might as well try to fill the Grand Canyon by throwing rocks into the river.

Upon receiving advice, your DD gets a great big smile, complete with big beautiful eyes and nods vigorously. She then does exactly what the coach asked ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY. He'll say something like "That's it!" Then, she goes back to doing it the way she was taught.

The dilemma your DD is facing is common in pitching. Someone will always be trying to fix her. This isn't going to stop at 10U, 12U, D1, or Olympic softball. (Believe it or not, there are people who've posted on this forum ways for Osterman to improve.) Your DD should learn the "how" and "why" of pitching, because otherwise she won't be able to figure out for herself if the advice she will be given is reasonable or is unadulterated BS.

 

[SoftballMama]

Well, I've written many times about the "smile and nod". To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, the "smile and nod" is a little childish and stupid, but then so are most team coaches.

Upon receiving advice, your DD gets a great big smile, complete with big beautiful eyes and nods vigorously. She then does exactly what the coach asked ONE TIME AND ONE TIME ONLY. He'll say something like "That's it!" Then, she goes back to doing it the way she was taught.

The dilemma your DD is facing is common in pitching. Someone will always be trying to fix her. This isn't going to stop at 10U, 12U, D1, or Olympic softball. (Believe it or not, there are people who've posted on this forum ways for Osterman to improve.) Your DD should learn the "how" and "why" of pitching, because otherwise she won't be able to figure out for herself if the advice she will be given is reasonable or is unadulterated BS.

sluggers - you are awesome! We love Ferris, so this is appropriate! I showed your advice to my DD and we both got a big chuckle. Thanks!

 

[halskinner]

My 9 yr old DD joined an ASA team in January. Prior to that she had only played rec ball, with mama coaching. She goes to a pitching coach that we like (I verified his stance on internal rotation months ago LOL) . ASA coach disagrees with PC has tried to change several things about DD's pitching. DD wants to please ASA coach to get playing time. Last night was a difficult one. Coach asked her to start her wind up and stop so she could see how DD was pulling the ball back. Per PC my DD pulls the arm straight back wtih the ball facing 2nd base. Coach wants her to pull her shoulder blades back and have the ball facing home plate. DD did it (what a trooper) but afterwards said to me, "mom that is just not right!" What do we do?

You take the adult responsibility stance with the team coach. You are paying good noney to have the professional pitching coach teach your daughter correct and safe mechanics, correct? Ask your team coach if he / she is ready to take on that liability. Suggest to the team coach to meet with the pitching instructor to discuss the changes in mechanics. Your team coach will probably NOT want to do that. Team coach might not let your daughter pitch. If that happens find a new team.

Or, you can tell the team coach how much money you have spent on her lessons so far. If the coach wants to change anything, repay you the money you have spent so far or leave her the heck alone. If the team coach is unwilling, run to the next team you can find.

The team coach has the right to say "My way or the highway". You have the right to say "NO". Sometimes it is in the best interest for the kid for the parent to step up and be the adult.

 

[shockcoach]

I wholeheartedly agree with Hal's comments.

 

[Coach JV]

hal hits it---Time to talk w/ team coach, if PC is reputable, then team coach
will understand. As team coach, I NEVER mess with pitching mechanics. Also
I don't mess with hitting if a player is getting outside hitting instruction. Perhaps
team coach does not understand protocol

 

[sluggers]

I respect Hal and CoachJV--but guys, you really don't get this. You've never set on the other side of this problem.

I've had two DDs who were all-conference players in college. The 3rd DD lettered in HS. I've interacted with well over 200 different coaches over those years. (The three of them usually were playing three sports per year.) This problem isn't unique to softball pitching.

I agree that a team coach shouldn't try to mess with mechanics. A team coach *should* respect the personal coach. You should be able to sit down with the coach and have a nice, reasonable discussion with him. But, it ain't gonna happen.

SO:

Most coaches are extremely defensive about what they know (or don't know) about a sport. They take any question by a parent as a challenge to their authority. (I.e., "What? You think Bill Hillhouse knows more about pitching than me?")

The coach will, sooner or later, get an opportunity to blame the DD's pitching problems on the PC and her parents--and he will do so. Trust me, it will happen as assuredly as the sun coming up in east. She will end up pitching less and having less fun playing softball. Worse yet--she will end up changing her form because she won't be able to stop this guy's harping.

Hal, it is way too late in the year for her to be jumping teams. She may not be able to find a team, and, if she does, she will end up at the bottom of the rotation.

 

[Coach Stan]

I have run into this problem many times where a team coach or the teams pitching coach will say my student is doing some thing wrong and here is how to fix. Many times it is a dad/mom coach who has his/her daughter going to a different pitching coach and likes what their pitching coach teaches. This coach or the team pitching coach feels the techniques/mechanics I teach differ from what his/her daughter is learning/teaching so they feel they have the right to fix or change things. This leads into confrontational situations specially between the coach and my students parents. I have had a few parents who let the coaches change things and their daughters started to develop poor mechanics. And then the coach asks the parents why the pitcher is not performing as well as they did when they tried out for the team.

I let the parent explain what the coach has tried to change or fix. Most of the time the coach has no clue what they are doing so I explain to the parent the best thing is have your daughter smile and execute the change or fix just like the coach says, then have their daughter talk to them and then come to me and I will let them know if the fix or change is good. 99.9% of the time it is crap and I will say so. Then I have the parent go to the coach and tell them that they do not want them to fix or change anything just to leave their daughter alone. But give them this "if you feel something is not to their liking tell them and they will discuss it with men and I will decided to change or fix it."

Going into my 41st year of pitching/coaching/private pitching coach and I know I do not know everything and willing to learn different ways of doing things as long as I know they work. But there is a lot of arrogance out there. I totally agree with all the advise provided on how to handle this situation. I am starting to find there are some pitching coaches specially one here in San Diego who has been around a while who has started a lot of trouble by going around and making statements about exactly what we are talking about. I tell my students parents you have to make a decision as to how you want your daughter to learn how to pitch and stick with. And if you feel how I teach is not good for your daughter then switch. But do not let some one change or fix your daughter on a whim.

 

[halskinner]

Ray, I am looking at this in a safety frame of mind. If the Team coach is teaching mechanics that can get her hurt, I dont care what point she is at in what season. An adult parent sometimes must take a stand where a kid will not.

I have had this happen to me as well when I was still instructing. Had to enlighten a few team pitching coaches as to what safe mechanics were, most had no clue.

I remember one team / organization that had a team in every age division from 10u to 18Gold. One of the requirements to play for their organization is that EVERY player had to attend hitting lessons given by the 18UGold team coach. Majority of the players already took hitting lessons from private instructors. If you think THAT didnt cause a furor! He probably had 100 or more parents ticked as heck all the time!

 

[Coach JV]

OK, we can breathe now, DD is 9. Many pitchers develop
little quirks that are her style. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
This being said, when I had a pitcher struggle last year, I spoke
to the parents who relayed to PC who corrected flaws.