similar but not the same

[HYP]

I certainly do. If he doesn't push back, how does his head stay centered? How does he turn the momentum from the back leg drive, into rotation? It's a push back in the absolute physics sense, not necessarily a conscious thought.

His leg lands bent and then straightens, do you agree? Due to geometry, physics and bio-mechanics, that straightening creates a push into the pelvis. How does his pelvis get turned so that his belly-button faces the pitcher, if there is no force pushing the front hip out and back?

I have to go to practice but...

If the rear hip is moving forward and the lead hip is off of its center line, so it doesn't slide forward. Which way will the front hip move? Will it move the opposite direction of the rear hip? So, Right handed batter. If I stand in the box with my toes of my right foot facing the plate. Now I stand on my back leg only. Left leg in a flamingo pose. Now pivot your right hip around on top of the rear leg. So your belly button faces the pitcher without moving your foot. Which way did the front hip move?

Now, do the in the context of a swing. The torso is pivoting around the rear femur. The rear femur maybe moving forward. So, now the rear hip is moving forward while pivoting around the femur. That is why Bonds front hip doesn't seem to move back as far as the rear hip moves forward.

I may be wrong with the femur stuff. I think that is what that bone is called.

That is how I see the hips working. The lead leg is keeping you from falling forward. It is supplying enough pressure to catch the swing. If that is the push back you are talking about then we are good and on the same page.

 

[00fpdaddy]

Do you think it is because he doesn't have his heel planted before he swings, like you told the 18 gold girl was wrong with her swing, to which I provided video of MLB players that didn't have their heel planted before swinging.

Or maybe it's is because he turns in his rear leg before his hips, like you said "Ted would never do." To which I provided video...several...of Ted's leg turning before his hip.

It could be one of several other things you made up, posted a full page novel about, and still pictures of hitters, that when I was kind enough to show the video of the pictures, it proved to be a load of bull. Which as always you changed the subject.

I was done with this thread...Push Block Push is a technique that has been taught. Everyone of this discussion sites blew up when the Doc got on, then disappeared because the Hanson Principle proved easily that is not what happens. Now Jim says it is not a "how" but a"what", not a technique, but what happens in any swing. Which I personally think is an attempt to distance himself from the proven wrong teaching of pbp. I agree that that in a high level swing there is a push of sorts, a block, and a push. BUT I have proved that PBP is not what causes or starts rotation. Jim said that it was never to be literally push block swing and push, that I mis understand. I know I didn't mis understand, but his description of a swing at that point in this thread was solid (he even said that 'my coil and ir' fit into that). So as I felt calling it PBP added confusion, (since it IS A TECHNIQUE that was taught), his swing description was matching video. Thanks for encouraging me back in Well.

As I said...there is block and push back in a swing...but it is not what causes or starts rotation. As you are reaching for that Ich doesn't push back as hard as Babe.

Hear is a clip from the video of PBP being taught. He pushes into a block....then swings. I posted the vid the way it is on the youtube, I didn't add the pauses or draw the lines.

Now Well...you can make a decision...you can let me go back to ignoring you, or you can allow me to test and show everything you write on here with the Hanson Principle (it won't look good for you).

Well, hate to say it as my dds crew says time to time " you been served "

 

[RichK]

My two cents (not that anybody asked):

Every hitter (except for the unfortunate few with only one leg) lands on their front leg.

Some young hitters, per Jbooth, lose power by collapsing their front leg rather than firming it up. (Which by the way is easily fixed).

You don't build a *high level* swing model to correct the inferior mechanics of beginners.

You don't build a *high level* swing model to explain WHAT happens during the swing rather than HOW it occurs.

I'm more interested in the complex biomechanics that initiates, drives and powers the highest level swing than the simple biomechanics that every hitter uses to help finish it and the universal physics that can be used equally to describe both good and bad swings (tip of the hat to HYP).

This is not a technical "swing description" forum; it is a technical "hitting" forum. The goal should be to learn how to execute and teach the best swing possible.

To my long-time lurkers mind, this PBP discussion has devolved into argument for argument's sake over a topic that just isn't all that essential to teaching our daughters and players HOW to swing.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

My two cents (not that anybody asked):

Every hitter (except for the unfortunate few with only one leg) lands on their front leg.

Some young hitters, per Jbooth, lose power by collapsing their front leg rather than firming it up. (Which by the way is easily fixed).

You don't build a *high level* swing model to correct the inferior mechanics of beginners.

You don't build a *high level* swing model to explain WHAT happens during the swing rather than HOW it occurs.

I'm more interested in the complex biomechanics that initiates, drives and powers the highest level swing than the simple biomechanics that every hitter uses to help finish it and the universal physics that can be used equally to describe both good and bad swings (tip of the hat to HYP).

This is not a technical "swing description" forum; it is a technical "hitting" forum. The goal should be to learn how to execute and teach the best swing possible.

To my long-time lurkers mind, this PBP discussion has devolved into argument for argument's sake over a topic that just isn't all that essential to teaching our daughters and players HOW to swing.

Regarding the bold above .....

Yes, sometimes the fix can be as simple as redefining the objective to the hitter. In some cases, the fix can be as simple as "turning the barrel".

Drag the barrel .....

Shortly after starting to work on turning the barrel .....

 

[Greenmonsters]

Uh, anatomical structure, articulation limitations, and the laws of physics. The weight is centered between the feet, the momentum is angular, and the legs are in an anatomical position that inhibits any further rotation.

I can't believe you actually can't figure that out on your own.

Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding how this actually happens in the PBP model.

 

[00fpdaddy]

With all the gifs from posters here and from other sites can someone tell me if I am seeing correctly. That the heads of elite hitters are not centered but over the rear hip while swinging. We always been taught keep your head centered. Were we misinformed all this time? I know we want the head to move with the least possible movement so the eyes stay focus on the path of the pitch.

 

[HYP]

With all the gifs from posters here and from other sites can someone tell me if I am seeing correctly. That the heads of elite hitters are not centered but over the rear hip while swinging. We always been taught keep your head centered. Were we misinformed all this time? I know we want the head to move with the least possible movement so the eyes stay focus on the path of the pitch.

IMO, the head starts over the belly button and the rear hip moves under the head. So yes, the head ends up over the rear hip.

Head over rear hip, rear hip over rear knee. Head, hip, knee.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

IMO, the head starts over the belly button and the rear hip moves under the head. So yes, the head ends up over the rear hip.

Head over rear hip, rear hip over rear knee. Head, hip, knee.

This is how Candrea was teaching the swing several years ago.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

When good hitting, goes bad.

 

[rdbass]