Wrists? Bat drag? Understanding a high end swing

[Eric F]

Yes FP, good description.

I was a little surprised that EricF thought the bat was dragged AFTER the point in the swing that he posted. The dragging, in a sense, had already taken place. That's why the hitter ended up in the orientation that EricF posted.

I saw the pic as being an example of a hitter in the process of dragging the bat. I did not intend to indicate that this position was where bat drag started. To me, bat drag clearly started earlier in the swing.

I have removed my original description to hopefully eliminate confusion for future readers.

It would be helpful if you could post a couple of pics of bat drag earlier in the process so people can know what to look for while working with their hitters.

 

[JJsqueeze]

all these posts

EricF, what you describe here is often a 'result' of what folks term 'bat drag'. From this point onwards the barrel is flung/flailed to impact. It's actually a powerful type whipping action.

EricF, the picture you show is the 'result' of the barrel essentially being already dragged. It's more an indicator ... and not necessarily a full proof indicator. Bat drag in this swing could have been detected much earlier ... which is where the correction needs to be ... much earlier.

EricF, here was your description ....

"Bat drag" is a condition where the rear elbow gets significantly ahead of the hands and puts the hitter in a position of dragging the bat along its length. This is an extreme example...

You make it sound like the bat is dragged after this point ... which is not the case ... the barrel has, in a sense, already been dragged.

What you describe as being ‘bat drag’ is the reason that many highly intelligent individuals struggled for years attempting to correct ‘bat drag’ issues. These folks placed bandaide after bandaide on swings attempting to correct a re-definition of ‘bat drag’. Had they actually identified what ‘bat drag’ was, and then attacked that, then they would have likely been much more successful … IMO anyway.

To answer your question ... no, it would not have better to simply agree. Not only is EricF incorrect, but he has taken the same position that has led many other well intended, well educated, bright individuals, to fail in solving 'bat drag'. It's the same reason that many fail to solve what they term DBSF.

EricF's response did not "piss me off". I'm simply stating that he is incorrect. No evil intended. He simply gave out incorrect information and it was pointed out.

Yes FP, good description.

I was a little surprised that EricF thought the bat was dragged AFTER the point in the swing that he posted. The dragging, in a sense, had already taken place. That's why the hitter ended up in the orientation that EricF posted.

Lose the ego and place more importance on finally getting the concept correct.

 

[JJsqueeze]

NV-

Being able to identify this is pretty easy even without video after you see it a few times, it is always accompanied by a levelling issue at launch in my experience and with hips that do not want to drive the swing. If you grab a bat and swing with your hips initiating the swing you will see that it is very hard to get into this position. In order to bat drag your arms take control of the swing and get a big head start on the hips the hands level before the barrel turns. Once the bat is launched they finally start rotating their torso after the arms are out in front.

A good fix that will get you half way there is to just make sure the lower half initiates the swing. coil back and let the hips get going first. This will take away the path for that top hand elbow to collapsed and it cleans things up a bit. This only gets you part of the way there. You still have to get the hands active early and stay connected so you can use the hands to pivot the barrel more instead of dropping and levelling. try it and tell us what you find.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Ahhh. I see now. Your intent was to nit-pick my attempt at providing a simple description for someone who had requested a simple description. Good job, FFS. You have succeeded in cutting me down and illustrating your superiority. I know...you were just being "helpful".

That's the only worth FFS has. He has never offered any help, he only offers 'that is wrong'. Your picture is a fine example of bat drag.... and dont hold your breathe that FFS will answer your question or provide a picture.

Simply not true. Don't be afraid to perform a search. It's an issue that has been described before.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Yes FP, good description.

I was a little surprised that EricF thought the bat was dragged AFTER the point in the swing that he posted. The dragging, in a sense, had already taken place. That's why the hitter ended up in the orientation that EricF posted.

I saw the pic as being an example of a hitter in the process of dragging the bat. I did not intend to indicate that this position was where bat drag started. To me, bat drag clearly started earlier in the swing.

I have removed my original description to hopefully eliminate confusion for future readers.

It would be helpful if you could post a couple of pics of bat drag earlier in the process so people can know what to look for while working with their hitters.

EricF, it is good that you removed your original description. It was incorrect. Even here though, you describe the photo as the bat being in the process of being dragged, yet the dragging (in a sense) has already occurred.

When I have time I can describe the issue and solutions again .... But that time is not now. I'm way too busy at the moment. Those that are interested can perform a search ... It's been discussed.

 

[mann]

A large percentage of youth will have the bat drag issue. Because they are throwing the bat.

Like Five says, it is a very powerful swing, with no adjustment, the ball will be hit very hard, IF, if the ball is thrown right at the numbers.

The ability to get the barrel below the hands is eliminated. i remember when Five and others would say just turn the barrel, and bat drag was gone.

 

[Stever]

EricF, it is good that you removed your original description. It was incorrect. Even here though, you describe the photo as the bat being in the process of being dragged, yet the dragging (in a sense) has already occurred.

When I have time I can describe the issue and solutions again .... But that time is not now. I'm way too busy at the moment. Those that are interested can perform a search ... It's been discussed.

We will all impatiently wait for you to finally teach something...and the solutions were promised, lmao

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

We will all impatiently wait for you to finally teach something...and the solutions were promised, lmao

In the mean time, those that aren't lazy will put in an effort to perform a search.

 

[Eric F]

NVF - I hope you learned your lesson. NEVER, EVER ask a simple question and expect a simple answer in the Tech Hitting section.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

A large percentage of youth will have the bat drag issue. View attachment 9333 Because they are throwing the bat. View attachment 9334

View attachment 9335 Like Five says, it is a very powerful swing, with no adjustment, the ball will be hit very hard, IF, if the ball is thrown right at the numbers.

The ability to get the barrel below the hands is eliminated. i remember when Five and others would say just turn the barrel, and bat drag was gone.

Mann, folks don't seem to want to hear the phrase "turn the barrel", "turn the knob", "around" in the "around"/"along" or the importance of building proper structure along the forearms by 'use of the hands' at swing initiation.

You have some good points ... minus the point "because they are throwing the bat". The throw/flail/cast/along/long-through of the bat is present in many good swings. What is missing in a 'bat draggy' swing is a proper 'around'/'short-to' leading up to the flail/cast/along/long-through.