Why do girls stand at the front of the box?

[Greenmonsters]

IMO, blue's position in the slot often expands the outside corner strike. If you run into a blue w/ an extra wide zone (i.e., 2 balls out) who's bottom of the zone is mid-shin, the batter needn't bring a bat to the plate unless they plan to move up and in on the plate.

 

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt, since you believe plate coverage is not a function of one's depth in the box, then why do you prefer Lockwood's placement in the above GIF relative to Yee's?

I'm saying that a hitter who starts with their front foot even with the front edge of home plate can cover the entire strike zone. I'm saying that the notion that FP hitters need to stand at the front of the batter's box in order to get plate coverage or to hit pitches before they break is a myth. Plenty of FP hitters hit just fine standing back in the box.

I don't tell a hitter where to stand in the box. However IMO it's wrong to mindlessly parrot things that aren't factually true. There are lots of FP players out there who have been told that the only way they can get plate coverage or hit pitches that move is to stand at the front of the batter's box. When someone like jbooth or myself challenges that belief, we get the typical "baseball and softball" are different argument. So I thought I would show some FP hitters successfully hitting while starting towards the back of the box.

I prefer the other two over Yee because I prefer that the front knee be at least even with the front of the plate at contact. Basically I prefer that the entire front side from the front shoulder down to the front knee is close to even with the strike zone. The knee might be a little in front, while the shoulder is a little behind, but both are close to even with the front edge of the plate. This frames the strike zone from top to bottom at the point where the ball first crosses the plate. It just seems logical to me. It seems like a good compromise between seeing the strike zone and having time to read the pitch. Plus I believe it helps the umpire be consistent, which is important to me if I'm hitting.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sure Wellphyt, I agree that it is wrong to "mindlessly parrot things that aren't factually true". No argument there. I don't see how that supports your argument though ... as you haven't provided anything factual in terms of plate coverage relative to the pitch that was thrown. Sort of straw-man argument from my perspective. Keep in mind that Jim isn't arguing the movement of pitches. He's basically attempting to optimize 'plate coverage' versus 'time' ... a smart idea IMO.

 

[Wellphyt]

Sure Wellphyt, I agree that it is wrong to "mindlessly parrot things that aren't factually true". No argument there. I don't see how that supports your argument though ... as you haven't provided anything factual in terms of plate coverage relative to the pitch that was thrown. Sort of straw-man argument from my perspective. Keep in mind that Jim isn't arguing the movement of pitches. He's basically attempting to optimize 'plate coverage' versus 'time' ... a smart idea IMO.

I put up three clips of FP hitters starting with their front foot even or behind the front of the plate. That supports my argument that some FP hitters hit just fine standing back in the box. No high level hitter I know of positions themselves in the box in a way where they can't cover the entire strike zone. The fact that these hitters start towards the back of the box tells me that they can cover the entire zone. Are you suggesting that Jen Yee hit the way she hit without being able to cover the entire strike zone? Of course all three of the hitters I posted can cover the strike zone. Any hitter can cover the strike zone if their front knee is even with the plate at contact. Yee's knee looks to be slightly further back than even.

You can wait on a video clip of a FP hitter who starts at the back of the box hitting a low outside pitch, or, you can go swing a bat, or; use common sense and realize that the three hitters I posted aren't going to start where they start if they didn't have plate coverage.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I put up three clips of FP hitters starting with their front foot even or behind the front of the plate. That supports my argument that some FP hitters hit just fine standing back in the box. No high level hitter I know of positions themselves in the box in a way where they can't cover the entire strike zone. The fact that these hitters start towards the back of the box tells me that they can cover the entire zone. Are you suggesting that Jen Yee hit the way she hit without being able to cover the entire strike zone? Of course all three of the hitters I posted can cover the strike zone. Any hitter can cover the strike zone if their front knee is even with the plate at contact. Yee's knee looks to be slightly further back than even.

You can wait on a video clip of a FP hitter who starts at the back of the box hitting a low outside pitch, or, you can go swing a bat, or; use common sense and realize that the three hitters I posted aren't going to start where they start if they didn't have plate coverage.

Wellphyt, it is you that should pick up a bat and climb into the batter's box.

This topic exposes your experience level a bit. Suggests to me that you haven’t coached a team at a high level that has been under attack by a pitcher throwing a steady stream of screwballs and curveballs … because if you’ve experienced it first-hand, then the last thing you would be touting is having batters deep in the box. There’s also the issue of putting yourself at a disadvantage to a good dropball pitcher.

If you are “way up in the box” then you are at a disadvantage for hitting riseballs and have less time to read the pitch … if you are “deep in the box” then you are at a disadvantage for dropballs, curveballs and screwballs. What you seem to favor is a position of middle ground … which is understandable. The answer isn’t because you prefer to have less time to read the pitch, but because it is decent middle ground for the attack pitchers may launch.

Keep in mind that not all pitchers have the same strengths and weaknesses. A pitcher without a decent riseball will permit a hitter that is proficient in handling speed, to move up in the box and reduce the threat of screwballs, curveballs and dropballs.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

 

[Cannonball]

FFS, excellent work and I believe appropriate for what is often called when you have a very good pitcher who has a nice curve. As an FYI, my dd doesn't move much further up than to put her nose over the back corner (Mid section) of the plate. However, one particular weekend she had to move up because the zone was so wide that to stay back was to accept a backwards K. When JBooth asked his question, my impression was that he preferred all the way back and so, that is why I posted with the position of moving up. I have seen this year, a large number of young ladies way up in the box at the collegiate level. Again, FFS, nice video work which demonstrated my concerns about "two balls out" being called.

 

[jbooth]

Sure Wellphyt, I agree that it is wrong to "mindlessly parrot things that aren't factually true". No argument there. I don't see how that supports your argument though ... as you haven't provided anything factual in terms of plate coverage relative to the pitch that was thrown. Sort of straw-man argument from my perspective. Keep in mind that Jim isn't arguing the movement of pitches. He's basically attempting to optimize 'plate coverage' versus 'time' ... a smart idea IMO.

I'm trying to optimize plate coverage AND time to read/see.

I should clarify that I meant that the hitters I saw had their front foot almost on the front line. When I said they should be back in the box, I didn't necessarily mean that they should put their back foot on the back line. I meant that they should get back to where their front foot would be at about the front of the plate, or a bit ahead.

In softball that is a full 3 foot difference, which can reduce the reaction time by as much as .045 seconds. Or about the equivalent of 5mph.

Based upon all the women you have shown at the front of the box, it seems that it is a myth that it is tougher to hit fastpitch than baseball. If it was tough to catch up because of the shorter distance, they wouldn't be up front and still be as successful as they seem to be. OTOH, maybe they'd have more success if they backed up a bit. The top notch players you have shown, do have their front foot nearer to the plate than to the front line.

 

[Screwball]

If you have a choice between slightly faster and straight OR moving a lot but minimally slower, many choose the first.