What to do when the Catcher won't cooperate?

[canyonjoe]

I think any bucket parent’s shins might disagree with you

It's just a little easier to say that it just dropped versus trying to explain how you lost 10 mph on your fastball

 

[obbay]

In the future if you ever guest on a team and are going to pitch I would have your DD ask the HC how and who calls pitches. I don't condone what the catcher
did, but I'm guessing she just really didn't want to go through a whole scenerio for 1 inning. While I wouldn't have DD just ignore C and throw say a change up that
she wasn't expecting, I would have her hit corners early in the count even if location isn't called. Throwing a Drop in stead of a FB shouldn't cause too much problem either.

You're probably right. Makes sense.
DD did paint the corners and the black but she found this team could hit a pitch whether it was in the strike zone or not!
More than 1 Ankle high fastball in the river resulted in a shot to an OF gap.
These kids could HIT!

 

[Chris Delorit]

Nice thread, lots of great opinions.

In the grand scheme, we have to be careful of not creating droids. The game hasn't changed, it's still the same game it always has been. Style & management has changed, and is always evolving. For better or not so much. I strongly believe that most coaches are really trying their very best, most of the time.

These young athletes are sharp, bright minds. As they mature, their lives will be filled with decision making challenges. So, important to guide but be aware of helicoptering.

Very important to teach our catchers to study pitchers, hitters & situations. Coaches...develop & nurture those skills. If these kids can ace Human Anatomy prior to HS, developing a softball IQ is pretty easy.

Much too often, softball coaching grossly under-prioritizes the importance of developing our catchers. A good catching coach is equally as important as a good pitching coach, especially if you're on the radar screen.

These kids can & should be nurtured & encouraged to call their game at some point in their travel ball years. It's up to coaches to help determine if & when that may be appropriate for each athlete. If I were a college coach, that skill is very important in my recruiting consideration. Regardless of whether we call pitches in college, anytime we can add that attribute to our player's toolbox, is a benefit to our team.

 

[Classof2020]

To the OP thank's for sharing the situation cause from what I've seen some day we will have that issue to deal with. Sounds like how you ended up handling it was all you could do

I have found the last two years that sometimes the only thing worse than a coach who's daughter is a pitcher is a coach who's daughter is a catcher. We have had two years in a row of 14's where daddy's sweet little baby is thought to be a genius at calling her own game and it has been a joke. Game after game of having her calling random fb's with a change up every 3rd batter and if you're lucky she might throw in a rise ball if she was way ahead in the count. If DD shook her off she would pout. Then daddy would get bad because they were slowing the game down and after all that God forbid if what DD wanted her to throw didn't work because it would never get called again like above comment mentioned. My DD had discussions with the catcher before games, after games and during games. She spoke with the coach. I spoke with the coach. We finally tried to speak with the assistant coach. But when you have rose colored implants surgically inserted into your eyes there is no getting through. Part of it is humbling as your daughter looks stupid throwing fast balls and getting tee'd off on, part of it is irritating knowing how much better it would be for the team. The best thing that happened was when daddy's girl got nailed by a pitch and had to sit out for a few games at the end of the season and #2 catcher (who was actually by far #1) and DD got teamed up more and started to build rapport and had fun using her pitches to frustrate batters.

I've been on this site long enough to know that someone will now say "maybe you're DD doesn't have the control or pitches you think" and that's fine. I'm not saying my daughter is amazing but her control is getting pretty good and when her rise and drop are both working (periodically the stars align and all 4 pitches are working the same day) it's fun to see them used. Just praying for a good catcher in her future that can be a fun match up for the both of them!!

 

[NVfishing]

My DD's catcher is calling a lot of the games this year. Sometimes they are the wrong call. Not the catchers fault, she's young. Almost need to give lessons on pitch selection if you let the catcher make the call. If every pitch worked then we wouldn't need fielders.

 

[Greenmonsters]

You raise some valid point but lets keep it real. At the higher levels it is done from the dugout and for good reasons. First the skills to do so behind the plate are simply not there. Many catchers in college were not full time dedicated catchers when they were recruited. My DD's catcher a Senior had not had real time behind the plate since TB. She did a great job but certainly was not up to the task of calling a game vs SEC competition. The idea that kid can gain meaningful pitch calling experience at 12U or 14U is folly. At that age rarely if ever does the pitcher have the command to put the ball in a specific location. We all know the claim of having multiple legitimate pitches at that age is one of the jokes in the game. There is no benefit to anyone calling pitches either from behind the dish or the dugout if you have no idea where the ball will end up. Another factor is pitch calling is a very important part of the game. Way too important to be left to a player that most likely does not have the skills or experience when a coaches job is on the line every season if not every game. Yes, it is true that in the MLB some superstar pitchers have personal catchers. But this is not the MLB. It is not even the same sport. And catchers are not being paid millions of dollars to provide that value. You cannot expect to drink champagne when you are on a beer budget. The game of womens fast pitch has evolved and having a catcher call the game has gone the way of the dinosaur.

RB you raise some valid points as usual. However, just because the info is in the dugout it does not mean that it can be used to best effect. I get that coach's jobs and careers are on the line based on their performance but that doesn't mean that they are any better or worse at it than anyone else that has learned by trial and error. IMO the problem is that most catchers are entering college without that experience. I agree that Pitch calling is of limited value when the pitchers have not become reliable. Yet, that doesn't stop the 10u 12u coaches from trying does it? Teach those catchers and let them learn by experience starting at those ages and you give college coaches an option that they don't have now and maybe you stop seeing Field position players thrown behind the plate.

 

[JAD]

It was interesting to watch the Softball WCWS this year. As I watched the pitchers take the pitch calls from the dugout, I noticed that most girls on some teams are wearing wrist bands to see what pitch is being called. I am guessing that the concept is that if the fielders know what pitch is being called and what location that it is being thrown to, that the fielders will have a better chance of anticipating where the ball may be hit and thus reduce hits and/or errors.

Be careful when using that phase or you too may find yourself in a flame war with FFS over the benefits of the Auburn hop!

 

[riseball]

RB you raise some valid points as usual. However, just because the info is in the dugout it does not mean that it can be used to best effect. I get that coach's jobs and careers are on the line based on their performance but that doesn't mean that they are any better or worse at it than anyone else that has learned by trial and error. IMO the problem is that most catchers are entering college without that experience. I agree that Pitch calling is of limited value when the pitchers have not become reliable. Yet, that doesn't stop the 10u 12u coaches from trying does it? Teach those catchers and let them learn by experience starting at those ages and you give college coaches an option that they don't have now and maybe you stop seeing Field position players thrown behind the plate.

I have found that very few catchers in 10U -12U are still catching in 16U -18U. At the older ages as the players and the game gets much faster you need an athlete behind the plate. Every one that I have placed in college were converted to that position from OF or MI. Most had maybe 3 seasons behind the plate when they went off to college. My DD's catcher last year, a Senior caught in TB but spent most of her time at 3B until last season. Arguably she did quite well but most likely not up to the task of calling a SEC series where you have a strategy to take you through all 3 games, not a single game or just a couple of innings. It is one thing to call a single game for one pitcher. But something totally different to call 3 games in a row with only 2 pitchers while trying to make them look like 4 or 5.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I have found that very few catchers in 10U -12U are still catching in 16U -18U. At the older ages as the players and the game gets much faster you need an athlete behind the plate. Every one that I have placed in college were converted to that position from OF or MI. Most had maybe 3 seasons behind the plate when they went off to college. My DD's catcher last year, a Senior caught in TB but spent most of her time at 3B until last season. Arguably she did quite well but most likely not up to the task of calling a SEC series where you have a strategy to take you through all 3 games, not a single game or just a couple of innings. It is one thing to call a single game for one pitcher. But something totally different to call 3 games in a row with only 2 pitchers while trying to make them look like 4 or 5.

No question that this is a challenge. But if it is too big a challenge for anybody but a coach to call the pitches from the dugout, pray tell how the coaches developed that experience and insight??? The "book" (i.e. Scouting-based game plan) and the perspective from the dugout are not nearly as effective as putting the book in the catcher's head (or on their arm band) coupled with the perspective from behind the plate. The proof to this is that no experienced pitch caller will claim that they couldn't do a better job if they were able to sit behind the plate instead of 40 feet or more away in the dugout.

As far as having to move an athlete to behind the plate, I'm don't fully agree, but my opinion may be skewed geographically as NECC is developing a good number of young athletic catchers in the northeast that I expect will be catching for many years.

 

[riseball]

No question that this is a challenge. But if it is too big a challenge for anybody but a coach to call the pitches from the dugout, pray tell how the coaches developed that experience and insight??? The "book" (i.e. Scouting-based game plan) and the perspective from the dugout are not nearly as effective as putting the book in the catcher's head (or on their arm band) coupled with the perspective from behind the plate. The proof to this is that no experienced pitch caller will claim that they couldn't do a better job if they were able to sit behind the plate instead of 40 feet or more away in the dugout.

As far as having to move an athlete to behind the plate, I'm don't fully agree, but my opinion may be skewed geographically as NECC is developing a good number of young athletic catchers in the northeast that I expect will be catching for many years.

I agree 100% that anyone calling pitches could do a better job if they did so from behind the plate. But in the grand scheme of things the incremental value attained simply does not justify the expense of transferring the required knowledge to the catcher. Top level teams put significant effort into scouting other teams, analyzing stats, picking signs and anything else to gain a competitive advantage. Training the catcher to call the game is obviously is not worth the effort. If it was, then coaches would be doing it. The unpopular truth is that "great pitch calling" has a minimal effect over what would be considered competent pitch calling. You do not need great pitch calling, great catching, or even great pitching to be successful. You just need a high level of competency. In other words just don't screw it up. As stated by NECC it is not about turning balls into strikes, rather it is about keeping strikes as strikes. Pitching is similar in that it is not about throwing great pitches, but not throwing it fat. If you have a competent pitcher and catcher and simply do not screw up the pitch calling you will do quite well.