- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
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I do not endorse ANY DRILLS that PROMOTE OVERUSE of the shoulder complex in a short amount of time.........INCLUDING "timed speed pitching" OR double or "triple arm circles"........
Velocity practice
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I do not endorse ANY DRILLS that PROMOTE OVERUSE of the shoulder complex in a short amount of time.........INCLUDING "timed speed pitching" OR double or "triple arm circles"........
- Jun 18, 2010
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starsnuffer, this has also been my experience. When DD really tries to go "all out" she tends to tighten everything up which causes her to slow everything down. Just as you describe, she shortens her arm circle and pulls hard with her throwing arm shoulder.
- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
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"Tense" is not a word I use.........Not even sure who decided "tensing up" was about anything I described.
Ballistic is a word I use.........Often........
No disrespect to anyone commenting here........
Yoga exercises or ballistic/core training........You decide which is more beneficial to the fastpitch delivery......
Take a look at the "relaxed" nature of Finches Neck and Arms.........Take a look at Sarah's legs..........Look at the Jaw lines on both and gauge how "relaxed" they are at the "moment of truth"........
A nice relaxed pitcher with a nice "relaxed windup/load".......A nice "relaxed leg drive".......A nice "relaxed arm circle"........A nice "relaxed I/R snap".......If you believe this will produce the highest velocity pitchers over those who know how it feels to create ballistic motion, then you are entitled........I don't hold it against anyone.
For those of you who's goal it is to produce "Gracefull Relaxed Swan-Like Pitchers" like we see when viewing slo-motion video............Please ignore my advise........
For those of you who are hoping for their students to understand the ballistic nature of pitching........And can't figure out the difference between this 6yo student and yours........I'd suggest including your own rendition of velocity training in your sessions.........
"Velocity training is a series of BALLISTICLY MOTIVATED FULL PITCHES that focus on FULL EXERTION of the windup/load, leg drive, arm circle speed and I/R wrist snap.........."
Note the exertion breath at release. It's hardly audible........But very visable........Also note the look on this childs face as she delivers a ballistic pitch at such a young age..........
Just my opinion people........And something I've done with all my students over the years.........With great success.......
Ballistic is a word I use.........Often........
No disrespect to anyone commenting here........
Yoga exercises or ballistic/core training........You decide which is more beneficial to the fastpitch delivery......
Take a look at the "relaxed" nature of Finches Neck and Arms.........Take a look at Sarah's legs..........Look at the Jaw lines on both and gauge how "relaxed" they are at the "moment of truth"........
A nice relaxed pitcher with a nice "relaxed windup/load".......A nice "relaxed leg drive".......A nice "relaxed arm circle"........A nice "relaxed I/R snap".......If you believe this will produce the highest velocity pitchers over those who know how it feels to create ballistic motion, then you are entitled........I don't hold it against anyone.
For those of you who's goal it is to produce "Gracefull Relaxed Swan-Like Pitchers" like we see when viewing slo-motion video............Please ignore my advise........
For those of you who are hoping for their students to understand the ballistic nature of pitching........And can't figure out the difference between this 6yo student and yours........I'd suggest including your own rendition of velocity training in your sessions.........
"Velocity training is a series of BALLISTICLY MOTIVATED FULL PITCHES that focus on FULL EXERTION of the windup/load, leg drive, arm circle speed and I/R wrist snap.........."
Note the exertion breath at release. It's hardly audible........But very visable........Also note the look on this childs face as she delivers a ballistic pitch at such a young age..........
Just my opinion people........And something I've done with all my students over the years.........With great success.......
I beg to differ. Ultimately, a "good" pitcher is measured by wins and losses. Strikeouts would be a close second. Accuracy of radars can be argued but you can't argue strikeouts and win/loss records. Speed is good for ratings, though.
- Jul 26, 2010
- 3,553
- 0
Explode and resist are two words that work better. If you look at the pitchers you showed, you can see where their muscles are working. The work comes on starting the drive, and stopping or transferring the drive. These two mechanics must be hard, and there must be tension there, I agree. One can not step softly nor can one land squishy in order for the pitch to be strong. However, you can clearly see how the pitching arm and shoulder are relaxed. The body works a lot like a cross between a catapult and a trebuchet in this manner, it's a strong drive and a sharp stop, but the arm is a relaxed sling-like implement.
We talk a lot about internal rotation, and how that particular movement is the quickest and most efficient moves that the human body can make. This is true. However, the muscles that control this movement and make it happen are also some of the very weakest in the body. While there is speed in the IR motion, there is very little force. Even adding just a bit of resistance to this motion, say, holding a weight (a softball) in the hand slows this motion down tremendously. This is where the body must move in such a fashion to generate the energy and force needed for the IR motion to maintain speed outside of the joints in the arm, and then transfer that momentum as efficiently as possible. Relaxation is key to this transfer.
You could say that the pitcher must be very zen-like. They must be strong and soft at the same time.
-W
We talk a lot about internal rotation, and how that particular movement is the quickest and most efficient moves that the human body can make. This is true. However, the muscles that control this movement and make it happen are also some of the very weakest in the body. While there is speed in the IR motion, there is very little force. Even adding just a bit of resistance to this motion, say, holding a weight (a softball) in the hand slows this motion down tremendously. This is where the body must move in such a fashion to generate the energy and force needed for the IR motion to maintain speed outside of the joints in the arm, and then transfer that momentum as efficiently as possible. Relaxation is key to this transfer.
You could say that the pitcher must be very zen-like. They must be strong and soft at the same time.
-W
JJsqueeze
Dad, Husband....legend
I like the Zen idea. And I don't see it as opposed to what BM is saying, his advice is basically to stop thinking about mechanics and now just pitch as hard as you can. The verbal prodding seems to be designed to elicit a little anger to allow that to act as an extra source of power. From what I gather this is not advice that says, tense up and try to muscle the ball, although during this practice I can see a kid doing exactly that. This is the idea of tapping into that extra little reservoir of power we all have and learning how to control it. I know that when I play basketball and go up for a block, somehow I jump a lot higher than I do normally (I also let out a grunt that I don't mean to do), same thing when I used to play football, I was much faster going after a pass trying to get it than I was just running. I don't remember being tense in these situations, just extremely focused on the fact that I AM BLOCKING THIS SHOT.....I AM CATCHING THIS PASS....I've used the advice when with the DDs batting-that the best mind is a clear and focused mind, the second best is a mind that is a little angry. The worst is one that is timid or afraid or one that is cluttered with a list of to dos (step, turn my hip) etc.
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No, not TB. In college, yes, and, to a lesser extent, HS. But, most of the time, it doesn't mean anything.
In TB, winning and losing depend upon the competition. I can take any 50MPH 14U pitcher and win 30 games with her.
When a pitcher is "good", she will be compared to other pitchers. She will get gunned and people (coaches, fans, players, the media) will use that as a benchmark to compare to her other pitchers. The better she is, the more times she will be gunned. o.
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- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
- 63
Look Star.....You should read this.......You'll find it has EVERYTHING TO DO with the actions you describe above, which has me scratching my head regarding your response:
"Ballistic Movement" is defined as the following:
Ballistic Movement: Application in humans:
In human, ballistic movements involve spontaneous propulsion of the limbs.[15] This can be seen in daily routines such as reach and strike reactions, which are atomic by nature. Pointing gestures and placing an object are reach reactions; they have low acceleration and deceleration. On the other hand, punching and throwing are strike reactions; they are characterized by high acceleration and deceleration. These movements have highly variable target locations, and they are referred to as “ballistic” in psychokinesiology. During ballistic movement an initial impulse is needed to accelerate the limb (hand/foot) toward the target, then a decelerating impulse act as a brake to stop the movement. These movements are characterized by a bell-shaped velocity profile. The Bayesian Model(see Bayesian network), which was developed to perform recognition without pose-tracking, explains human ballistic movement as a sequence of movements between objects and the environment. Each movement is independent from precedent and subsequent one, in varying context. Fast single joints movement in humans is controlled by a series of activation of agonist, antagonist and then agonist muscles; this process is called triphasic activation. Those movements are executed “with a pattern of bursts in the agonist and antagonist muscles of fairly constant duration but different amplitude…” (Acornero et al. 1984).[16] Any ballistic movement involving two joints will require an agonist and an antagonist burst; this can be viewed as the building blocks for different types of ballistic movements.END.......
I have no idea why you interject "tenseness" related to Ballistic Movement........Maybe you just don't like the word Ballistic.........I don't know........
Becoming "TENSE" has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with Ballistic Movement..........Ballistic Movement has EVERYTHING TO DO with learning to throw hard.........
To each his own.......I respect your opinion........I just have my own way of creating top level pitchers......And ALL OF THEM have gone through my velocity training exercises to allow them to become VERY ATHLETIC in the pitching delivery.........
There is a level of INTENSITY that CANNOT BE NOURISHED without some level of Ballistic Training IMO..........
That's it..........People can judge for themselves if it helps them.........
"Ballistic Movement" is defined as the following:
Ballistic Movement: Application in humans:
In human, ballistic movements involve spontaneous propulsion of the limbs.[15] This can be seen in daily routines such as reach and strike reactions, which are atomic by nature. Pointing gestures and placing an object are reach reactions; they have low acceleration and deceleration. On the other hand, punching and throwing are strike reactions; they are characterized by high acceleration and deceleration. These movements have highly variable target locations, and they are referred to as “ballistic” in psychokinesiology. During ballistic movement an initial impulse is needed to accelerate the limb (hand/foot) toward the target, then a decelerating impulse act as a brake to stop the movement. These movements are characterized by a bell-shaped velocity profile. The Bayesian Model(see Bayesian network), which was developed to perform recognition without pose-tracking, explains human ballistic movement as a sequence of movements between objects and the environment. Each movement is independent from precedent and subsequent one, in varying context. Fast single joints movement in humans is controlled by a series of activation of agonist, antagonist and then agonist muscles; this process is called triphasic activation. Those movements are executed “with a pattern of bursts in the agonist and antagonist muscles of fairly constant duration but different amplitude…” (Acornero et al. 1984).[16] Any ballistic movement involving two joints will require an agonist and an antagonist burst; this can be viewed as the building blocks for different types of ballistic movements.END.......
I have no idea why you interject "tenseness" related to Ballistic Movement........Maybe you just don't like the word Ballistic.........I don't know........
Becoming "TENSE" has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with Ballistic Movement..........Ballistic Movement has EVERYTHING TO DO with learning to throw hard.........
To each his own.......I respect your opinion........I just have my own way of creating top level pitchers......And ALL OF THEM have gone through my velocity training exercises to allow them to become VERY ATHLETIC in the pitching delivery.........
There is a level of INTENSITY that CANNOT BE NOURISHED without some level of Ballistic Training IMO..........
That's it..........People can judge for themselves if it helps them.........
Now that I've re-read BM's post, I get it.
My DD did a similar drill. We referred to it as an "RFBE" drill. As in--Relax, Focus, Breathe, Explode. This is an advanced drill. Until a pitcher has pretty decent control, it can't be done. This is the actual sequence a pitcher should goes through on the mound for each pitch during a game. It should be practiced just like throwing a drop ball.
The sequence is:
(1) Relax
(2) Focus
(3) Cleansing breath
(4) Deep breath
(5) Explode--Meaning 100% effort on every phase of the pitch for the entire pitch.
Most people think of "relax" as "laying on the couch, sleeping through a baseball game." In a sports context, "relax" means "releasing tension"--specifically in the neck, shoulders, and face.
"Relaxing during the pitch" means that the pitcher does not mentally or physically fight the pitch. It does not mean "take it easy and don't force anything".
The idea behind the drill is that pitchers are often focused on part of the pitching motion, not the entire pitching motion. For example, there are drills for IR, there are drills for push off, there are drills for accuracy, etc. At some time, the pitcher has to focus on simply throwing the ball.
Too many times, Daddies (me included) are always pushing something rather than simply letting the kid throw the ball and "integrate" her entire pitching motion.
My DD did a similar drill. We referred to it as an "RFBE" drill. As in--Relax, Focus, Breathe, Explode. This is an advanced drill. Until a pitcher has pretty decent control, it can't be done. This is the actual sequence a pitcher should goes through on the mound for each pitch during a game. It should be practiced just like throwing a drop ball.
The sequence is:
(1) Relax
(2) Focus
(3) Cleansing breath
(4) Deep breath
(5) Explode--Meaning 100% effort on every phase of the pitch for the entire pitch.
Most people think of "relax" as "laying on the couch, sleeping through a baseball game." In a sports context, "relax" means "releasing tension"--specifically in the neck, shoulders, and face.
"Relaxing during the pitch" means that the pitcher does not mentally or physically fight the pitch. It does not mean "take it easy and don't force anything".
The idea behind the drill is that pitchers are often focused on part of the pitching motion, not the entire pitching motion. For example, there are drills for IR, there are drills for push off, there are drills for accuracy, etc. At some time, the pitcher has to focus on simply throwing the ball.
Too many times, Daddies (me included) are always pushing something rather than simply letting the kid throw the ball and "integrate" her entire pitching motion.
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