Thoughts on Daughter's Swing

[SBFAMILY]

On balance beams and 2X4's. Most hitting coaches I know don't use these and they went our of favor around 6 years ago. I would not recommend this drill as you can not get to heel plant and generate the angular ground forces required for rotation because the board is not wide enough. Additionally the back foot can not roll in towards the inside edge of the foot and then up because there is not enough board to land on.

you want them to stride forward use a 4 X 4 not a 2 X 4 and lay it on the ground in a straight line, we term this straight line as a line of force as we always want them striding straight ahead and not at an extreme angle. Use the 4 X 4 so they kick it versus the 2 X 4 which they can trip on or step on so they do not twist their ankle. If the are striding towards the plate place it on the toe side and if they are striding away on the heel side.

 

[coachdan]

If you want an easy way to get her back side properly connected try this. When she loads back, do not let her back knee move backwards. It must stay inside her back foot in order to be in a position to work WITH the hands. Quieting down her load will help with this as well. Keep the back knee inside the foot during the load and KEEP HER HEAD QUIET.

I like the suggestion even after the clip FFS posted and here is why. We are talking about a 9yr old and not a minor leager trying to make it to the pros. At 9 yrs old less=more...less movement = more consistency/success

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

SBF ... "angular ground forces". Yes! Ground reaction forces are angular.

Dukie … If your daughter placed a ‘feel sensor’ in her rear foot, would she feel a ‘gathering of energy’? It would sort of feel like a slow and fluid build-up of pressure before acceleration in pressure is felt. The notion is for that ‘feel’ to be located on the inside portion of the rear foot. Basically you keep the feel of pressure, between the rear foot and ground, on the inside half of the rear foot, as opposed to allowing a weight ‘roll’ or ‘distribution’ towards the outside portion of the rear foot. There are multiple advantages to this … one being the quieting action spoken of here, another being the ability to adjust more rapidly to inside/outside pitch location. It’s a good thing to introduce into a swing. Personally I think your daughter’s swing is in good shape … better than many considerably older than her.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I like the suggestion even after the clip FFS posted and here is why. We are talking about a 9yr old and not a minor leager trying to make it to the pros. At 9 yrs old less=more...less movement = more consistency/success

The bold above is simply not true.

You only have to look at another 9yr swing recently posted ... a hitter that initiates their swing from a near statue-like stance ... to see what "less movement" can lead to. Swing sequence is hugely important. Remove something as simple at the 'stretch' from one's swing, and you'll reduce them from potentially being "exceptional" to being "average" ... [read Jim Dixon's book "The Exceptional Athlete"].

 

[starsnuffer]

On balance beams and 2X4's. Most hitting coaches I know don't use these and they went our of favor around 6 years ago. I would not recommend this drill as you can not get to heel plant and generate the angular ground forces required for rotation because the board is not wide enough. Additionally the back foot can not roll in towards the inside edge of the foot and then up because there is not enough board to land on.

you want them to stride forward use a 4 X 4 not a 2 X 4 and lay it on the ground in a straight line, we term this straight line as a line of force as we always want them striding straight ahead and not at an extreme angle. Use the 4 X 4 so they kick it versus the 2 X 4 which they can trip on or step on so they do not twist their ankle. If the are striding towards the plate place it on the toe side and if they are striding away on the heel side.

Not every drill is meant to be used every day, and not every drill is for every player. There is no "one method" to teach kids how to do things. My own daughter was put on a beam once, by her hitting coach (a current NPF player) and the amount of power she GAINED while on the beam from quieting down was astounding. She learned to keep things quieter, and she never went on the beam again, I don't think it negatively effected other mechanics no more then practicing one handed hammers or stone skips makes the batter forget how to use the hand not involved in the drill.

-W

 

[dukie]

Great discussion guys.....sorry I haven't been able to post, in the middle of a project here at work. FiveFrame, I'll get you those 2 requests.

 

[dukie]

FiveFrameSwing, I'll try to answer your first question as best I can. The following events occured from the first post on the 30th till yesterday's posting.

First I showed her the clips in which you highlighted the "spinning" and explained the cause. We looked at some "model swings" from this board and attempted to "break down" the swings and hitting process.

We played a little catch and I tried to emphasize what I feel is a transition of weight from the back side, or foot, to the front side during the throw.

Next I set up the tee and had her perform long strides to over-exaggerate the weight shift.

We discussed the weight transition and trying not to get over the front foot, rather use the front foot to catch the shift of weight and go rotational.

I placed a ball behind her foot, explained why, and off we went. First I asked her to swing with the "spin" and noted the rolling of the ball from foot strike. Next I had her swing with a slight transition moving to the front foot and asked her to turn and look at the ball....her reply, "it's still there".

From there we replaced the ball with a heavy object and continued. We have been trying to get in about 3 buckets of balls from the tee each day and have worked with the pitching machine on two occasions, all with the static object behind the foot.


I am not an expert nor guru in the art of hitting, just a proud father who sees talent in his daughter and hopes to help her meet that potential.
Making changes can be a slippery slope especially with a head-strong child and equally so parent.
Be extremely careful with confidence.....I have heard more than once.... "Well you don't think I can do anything right" and "I hit fine now". I try to instill that just because she excells in her league now that later in life it may not be the case. Never to be satisfied to be better than your peers, be satisfied when you are the best you can be.

I believe the "spinning" can partially be attributed to the swing arm style pitching machine used in our rec. league (she doesn't play travel ball). Timing and loading can be tough with no pitching cue so she starts from a mostly loaded postition. This takes some movement form the process and I feel she got lazy and just started moving the front foot without any transfer.

I can now relate to the old commedians quip about a "tough room".....it can be tough in here at times, but if you ask for advice and opinions, be man enough to listen.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thank you for the description Dukie. Your daughter really is doing a ton correct. Congrats to the both of you.

 

[Jim]

Like this ...

Or like this ...

My point is that there are many professional swings where the rear knee can be seen rotating slightly rearward.

Shawn Wooten performed a decent analysis in this area of the swing, and he explains how it can be a significant contributor.

IMO it isn't the restriction of the rear knee that provides the benefit you are seeking, so much as it is the keeping of the weight distribution about the rear foot on the 'inside' portion of the rear foot ... and that can pretty much be predetermined based on a hitter's pre-setup. That would likely result in the quieting action you seek.

The bottom example's camera angle is different than the top, but in both examples that you've provided (if they were at a true side view) you would see his knee staying inside his back foot.

To keep the back knee (or any body part for that matter) absolutely still during an athletic movement is impossible.

Bad camera angle, but I agree with you that it is really about weight distribution on the rear foot.

 

[Jim]

The bottom example's camera angle is different than the top, but in both examples that you've provided (if they were at a true side view) you would see his knee staying inside his back foot.

I apologize, the camera angles are exactly the same. His load is a bit different in the bottom example. I do know that his back knee never goes outside his rear foot during his load.