The rear leg

[Lenski]

Very cool Lenski... If only for the recap of prior studies and the great references list included. Thank you for sharing. I'd like to see the study done on 33 beer league softball players instead of AA players from the Southern League though. Or maybe on 33 members of the forum! Now that would scientifically be the end all be all of the biomechanics of the swing!

What about the scientific approach and conclusion? This is a very detailed study.

 

[RayR]

You are all missing the point....the front leg assists by keeping you from falling on your face....of course there is going to be weight on the front foot at some point....

The action to launch the swing is over by the time the front foot is weighted....you all think that the weight of the front foot launches the swing....

The data suggests that hitters are "front foot" hitters.....ie they hit against a weighted front foot.

 

[tom.guerry]

there's no muscle stuff in the study.

he does not review Cheetham's data which includes database of MLB hitters expected speed gains from link to link, although this may no longer be available since his company seems to just publish and test in golf now. the baseball database may have never been published.

cheetham also is the x-factor stretch guy and in hitting measured 15 degrees of baseline stretch in coiling then additional 12 degrees separation (pelvis to shoulder) as swing initiates for total of 27 degrees of separation. this author measures 18 degrees.

good GFR stuff.

no rear scap comments even thought a refelector was placed there.

Studying "putative"/hypothetical MLB/HLBB pattern hitters vs these hitters for differences would be interesting.

Does the rear scap remain retracted until/after ball contact (BC) ?

example of cheetham's (now with AMM -advanced motion measurement) comparison of expert and non-expert golfers:

http://www.mytpi.com/images/pdfs/Kinematic SequenceTransitionDownswing.pdf

 

[redhotcoach]

Here's some light reading for those interested. This study, as Mann and jbooth point out in their posts, is that it is not the rear leg, rather the pelvic (hip) region that provides power. The rear leg initiates the stride, and once the stride is complete (heel plant) the rear leg is basically done, but it did it's job in stretching the external hip rotator muscles, which reside in the hip socket area, allowing compression of these muscles in the actual hip rotation movement. This study also proves that hitters do not throw their hands, rather it is the front shoulder and elbow that initiates the forward portion of the swing as the trail arm's elbow drops, but that would be more appropriate in another thread.

Anyhoo.....the results start at Chapter 4.

http://scholarlyrepository.miami.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1550&context=oa_dissertations

Thanks. Would you say that the study better matches
Booth swinging: (on the right)

Bonds swinging:

or just every hitter from tee ball to mlb.

That is a really long study...so to help if you are going to use it and quote it, please include page number.

 

[tom.guerry]

summary of some of Cheetham's MLB kinematic data:

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

 

[mann]

I don't think anyone would argue that by heel plant the rear leg is basically done....the swing is done at that point....unless you are a front foot hitter...

The swing is done before Lag is??
The bat (barrel) has not even been turned at "heel plant" how could it be done?

IMHO, the Swing is over,... at Contact. extension is the after effect, of the swing.

The big moment, in the swing, is contact, with a well timed wrist turn, release, and the front leg popping straight, at Contact.

 

[RayR]

Yup, because if you haven't started the swing before lag - you are dead in the water....the barrel has already been released....

You think of lag as a position to get to and then release from....lag is a pass through position after the barrel has been released....

You think the barrel is held and then released with the front foot....the barrel released upon launch from behind the rear hip...

We have polar opposite opinions on the swing, but I love the discussion.

 

[HYP]

The swing is done before Lag is??
The bat (barrel) has not even been turned at "heel plant" how could it be done?

IMHO, the Swing is over,... at Contact. extension is the after effect, of the swing.

The big moment, in the swing, is contact, with a well timed wrist turn, release, and the front leg popping straight, at Contact.

IMO, it had better happen before contact. If not you are talking about everything being timed to contact. No one is that good. That is why hitters try to stay on plane as long as possible. Because the point of contact changes from pitch to pitch. Find the ball with a loaded barrel and then throw with direction.

 

[mann]

IMO, it had better happen before contact. If not you are talking about everything being timed to contact. No one is that good. That is why hitters try to stay on plane as long as possible. Because the point of contact changes from pitch to pitch. Find the ball with a loaded barrel and then throw with direction.

Yes i agree that that the path to the ball must be being decided early, that is why my focus has shifted this year to the very start of the swing.
You get that part? "the start"
When a player has bat wrap, gets on a plane way behind themselves, there is now way to adjust, so i get that you must reconize early.

My point is the Power to the ball, is not complete, till contact, (approx., so i do not get misquoted)
The back leg, is not suppling power to the whole swing, till contact, is it?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Does a bow supply power to the arrow all the way to its target?