The rear leg

[mann]

I have been reading from this site and others, about the rear leg.
An age old battle.

Something new i just read, the rear leg, and knee directs the hands, via hip, to say, the outside pitch.
The rear leg seems magical, the back leg counter rotates the hip then, opens the hip, Supplies the "suddeness" to the swing, who needs a front leg.
Right now at this point in my continuing education, i believe that both legs are part of the swing, the rear starts, the front finishes, and is responsible for the kapow of contact.
The back leg drive, is over at "about" lag, and the back foot is a "walk off". side of foot then side of big toe.
Does DRIVING the knee produce much? I think the hip does more.
I am not a medical person, but i love hearing j booths stuff, he seems very common sense to me.

 

[jbooth]

I have been reading from this site and others, about the rear leg.
An age old battle.

Something new i just read, the rear leg, and knee directs the hands, via hip, to say, the outside pitch.
The rear leg seems magical, the back leg counter rotates the hip then, opens the hip, Supplies the "suddeness" to the swing, who needs a front leg.
Right now at this point in my continuing education, i believe that both legs are part of the swing, the rear starts, the front finishes, and is responsible for the kapow of contact.
The back leg drive, is over at "about" lag, and the back foot is a "walk off". side of foot then side of big toe.
Does DRIVING the knee produce much? I think the hip does more.
I am not a medical person, but i love hearing j booths stuff, he seems very common sense to me.

You're correct. BOTH legs drive the swing. However, the front leg is more passive in a conscious, or "feel" sense. The back leg is the one you have to think about. The front leg, from a feel standpoint, just stops you from lunging or letting the head and torso slide forward. It stops the forward momentum and finishes hip rotation.

The rear leg is extremely important. It starts everything. The back knee does absolutely nothing, as far as contributing power. The back knee must be bent and stay bent, in order to keep your head from moving up and/or forward.

 

[mann]

Posts from discussion

mann says "Hyp, maybe its terminology.
To me to coil, would be to turn the front rear pocket toward the pitcher. Uncoil would be, turn it back where it started from, and further, sometimes to catcher, less so on out side pitches.

The back hip moves foward, in a lineal direction, the whole coil uncoil time.
The back hip becomes visible from the front view, because of uncoil.
Again you can hold the coil, in the back leg, as in Tension, something that is not seen, running to first base if you want, but it will not help after a certain point in the swing. the first base thing was just a extreme point
Iso baseball was the video i was thinking of, just kind of a front side press, NO ROTATION"

so again visually, the hips coil then uncoil."











Originally Posted by mann

"Those are some great shots red hot.

HYP i drew it out on paper, and i see the path you talk about .
However, when i look at the front veiw of your clips, the back hip, goes in a straight line, in the coil foward.
the front hip closes a bit, more so in some mleaguers than others, then the front hip begins to open, with a severe pinch on the front side, just like it had on the backside, it hits this strong resistance and the front hip deflects back. The back side is releasing, by then, because i can see the rear foot, being dragged foward. ( i get lost on how the back hip can keep resistance with nothing to push against, so it must be from just clenching the muscles in the hip area that keeps the pressure in this area).

Bottom line is, the rear hip goes in a lineal direction , the front side rotates and counter rotates.

Front side views, and some REAR side views, and more top views, would be good to look at. I am also interested in the ANGLE of the hips during all of the swing.


Hyp says

OK, let me explain what it is I believe you are seeing.

Yes, when the rear hip coils the front hip will close off. The rear hip is moving in one direction the front hip will move in the other. So, when the rear hip is coiling back around the front hip is closing some but the rear femur has not started to work under yet. If you are coiling and moving out with this coil. The rear hip is moving away from the rear foot. Lengthening the rear leg some. Now, as the rear hip gets coiled past the quarter turn phase it is now moving in the same direction but is headed back towards the "infield" or plate from inside. Now, the femur starts to work under the rear hip and that forces the pelvis open, which moves the front hip back and around.

Some MLB hitters coil and don't move out while some coil and move out.

There is a clip of Pujols from behind him that shows this. I will try to find it.

Why does the front side rotate back? In some MLB hitters that have a high leg kick. The pelvis starts to open prior to the front foot getting down. How does that happen if the front foot is not on the ground?"endquote


Mann says
"Ok the Back starts things off, and i could use some drills to help with the back leg as so many girls that i work with, keep that back leg straight toe up, turned but straight.
When i swing, i feel the back hip tighten, i also feel the front hip tighten, both legs turning inward, then i feel the front leg open, this feel, can it be called "leg flare" seems to be my trigger, my hips turn, Uncoil.

 

[HYP]

Mann.

I don't have time to respond today but can you please clean up your post and get the quotes right? I didn't write all of that and it is hard to tell where your quote ends and mine begins. Thanks

 

[RayR]

Mann, you using coil to define rotation.

Your rear femur and rear hip are coiling in the rear hip socket. Turn your back foot in....stick your butt out a little without letting your rear knee flare out and don't lock out the rear leg - keep the knee bent....that should give you a feel of some coil...now rotate your front hip back towards the catcher a little keeping the rear leg firm....now you have more coil....as you stride out your rear femur should be maintain that coil by internally rotating more....now your have more coil and your rear hip is coming from the inside....your hands control the release of everything when the brain decides its time to turn the barrel....

 

[jbooth]

Mann, you using coil to define rotation.

Your rear femur and rear hip are coiling in the rear hip socket. Turn your back foot in....stick your butt out a little without letting your rear knee flare out and don't lock out the rear leg - keep the knee bent....that should give you a feel of some coil...now rotate your front hip back towards the catcher a little keeping the rear leg firm....now you have more coil....as you stride out your rear femur should be maintain that coil by internally rotating more....now your have more coil and your rear hip is coming from the inside....your hands control the release of everything when the brain decides its time to turn the barrel....

If you believe in toe touch, heel plant etc. The RVP stuff. The back leg is done with its job very shortly after heel plant. Or, you could judge that the back leg is done when the back heel is almost fully up.

The front leg opens the hips. Yes, in many MLB swings the front hip is already starting to open AS heel plant is occurring, but the front leg is fully weighted during the majority of the duration of hip rotation. The back leg puts momentum into the torso, and starts the uncoil. The full uncoil and finish of the hip turn is done while weight is on the front leg, and the final phase of rotation is caused by force coming up the leg and into the front hip socket, which pushes the front hip away from the plate and back toward the catcher. Once the back heel is up, there is little left to push off of.

There is a brief instant where force is being applied from both the back leg and the front leg. A transition phase. The force works from back leg to front leg, with a portion in the middle where both legs are pushing the pelvis from opposite directions.

It's like turning a car steering wheel with your hands on opposite sides of the wheel, and you push up with one hand, and pull down with the other, but not exactly simultaneously. One hand starts an instant before the other.

 

[redhotcoach]

If you believe in toe touch, heel plant etc. The RVP stuff. The back leg is done with its job very shortly after heel plant. Or, you could judge that the back leg is done when the back heel is almost fully up.

The front leg opens the hips. Yes, in many MLB swings the front hip is already starting to open AS heel plant is occurring, but the front leg is fully weighted during the majority of the duration of hip rotation. The back leg puts momentum into the torso, and starts the uncoil. The full uncoil and finish of the hip turn is done while weight is on the front leg, and the final phase of rotation is caused by force coming up the leg and into the front hip socket, which pushes the front hip away from the plate and back toward the catcher. Once the back heel is up, there is little left to push off of.

There is a brief instant where force is being applied from both the back leg and the front leg. A transition phase. The force works from back leg to front leg, with a portion in the middle where both legs are pushing the pelvis from opposite directions.

It's like turning a car steering wheel with your hands on opposite sides of the wheel, and you push up with one hand, and pull down with the other, but not exactly simultaneously. One hand starts an instant before the other.

Here is a Bonds gif. Maybe you could use it to show where all of this is happening.

 

[jbooth]

Here is a Bonds gif. Maybe you could use it to show where all of this is happening.

I already described it. He pushes with the back leg, when the front heel drops the back heel is coming up, which is the transition time, and then the ground reaction force coming up the front leg, pushes the front hip out.

 

[mann]

I will try a gif, bonds and others.
I say full weight is on the front side by about Lag, and even before that.
Bonds, on this swing any way, does not appear to get all off the back side.
He also appears to be a little out of wack with his finish, maybe because of Not, getting off the backside?

 

[redhotcoach]