The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[Boomers2012]

Excellent point. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective. Now that I can see what you are saying, from the perspective of Barnhill being a pitcher that younger aspiring pitchers want to emulate, it makes complete sense. Like I said, no disrespect. Appreciate the insight.

Now for a mechanical question. A serious one. When Barnhill replants, is she really pushing again or does her toe just make contact with the ground? I cannot tell if she is really re pushing or not.

 

[Classof2020]

Buwhahahaha. Dude, calm down. I can assure you my ethics are just fine. Are you really getting fired up about a pitcher pitching on TV that 99% of us will never face, play against, hit off of, etc.....??? How about we applaud her achievements and quit haggling over a leap or crow hop.

Do you realize that Riseball has had to deal with this pitcher directly and indirectly?? Do you know his daughter pitches for the Gamecocks? LEGALLY I might add! And he is a dad and a coach at the top level who encourages his pitchers to pitch legally.

And I hate to be the one to point this out but saying "it's only illegal if they call it" and then turning around and saying "my ethics are fine" is hilarious. My kids would even call me out on a statement like that!!

 

[djcarter1966]

I agree with most of what you are saying. But unlike most players, Barnhill like Nevins before her is an extreme case. Understand that I am not picking and choosing with Barnhill. Like many on this board I will quickly call out any skippy for what they are, cheaters. This is not the case of a young pitcher just learning and struggling with the mechanics. Rather she is the poster child for a player that throughout her career has been surrounded by enablers in awe of what she can accomplish outside of the rules. Not one person I have ever spoken to has argued that she is legal. They will make any excuse possible but never state she is in fact legal. It was that way in High School, Travel Ball, and now at Florida. It is a shame since she probably does have a high level of talent, but her accomplishments will be forever tainted just like many MLB players who were eventually seen for who they truly were.

I'm 100% on your side but I just don't know that I would go this far. Has anyone every sat down and explained it to her; does she assume she is just in a gray area and that sometimes her toe touches and sometimes it does not just like alot of pitchers (problem is most pitchers[with a little hop they are trying hard to fix] are legal 90%+ and where she is illegal 90%+); maybe she is making an effort but when she needs more power she reverts back. I'm just not ready to throw her in with the PED and corked bat crowd just yet.

Sad thing is it will only take one game and all her hard work and effort will go down the drain...imagine Game 3 in CWS final and she takes the circle and an umpire decides enough is enough (maybe he does not ever get a CWS game again [since they probably instruct them not to call it]but they can't pull him in the middle of the game) and calls her for IP every pitch until Walton has to pull her from the game and she can't pitch any more then what? Florida is lucky they have several good pitchers. She will have to bust her butt in the off season until she figures it out. Just don't understand why someone (umpire) would not have done this years ago but then again guess they like their jobs as much as the next guy.

 

[Classof2020]

"However, would you consider Monica Abbott, Jennie Finch, Blair Luna, Cat Osterman and about a few dozen more upper level pitchers cheaters? Everyone of the aforementioned pitchers either take a gym step off of the rubber, raise their push foot off of the rubber, leap an inch or two, push outside of little lines drawn from the rubber to the end of the circle and a couple of them push clear outside the circle. Those things are illegal. If everyone is bashing the Barnhill girl being such a cheater then you better be bashing all the rest."

I agree they should all be called for their leaping. However the gym step in the pictures/videos we are typically seeing is legal from what i understand in the NPF and in the Japanese footage of Abbott.

 

[Boomers2012]

Do you realize that Riseball has had to deal with this pitcher directly and indirectly?? Do you know his daughter pitches for the Gamecocks? LEGALLY I might add! And he is a dad and a coach at the top level who encourages his pitchers to pitch legally.

And I hate to be the one to point this out but saying "it's only illegal if they call it" and then turning around and saying "my ethics are fine" is hilarious. My kids would even call me out on a statement like that!!

2020, I'm glad I was able to provide you with humor!

 

[JAD]

Sad thing is it will only take one game and all her hard work and effort will go down the drain...imagine Game 3 in CWS final and she takes the circle and an umpire decides enough is enough (maybe he does not ever get a CWS game again [since they probably instruct them not to call it]but they can't pull him in the middle of the game) and calls her for IP every pitch until Walton has to pull her from the game and she can't pitch any more then what? Florida is lucky they have several good pitchers. She will have to bust her butt in the off season until she figures it out. Just don't understand why someone (umpire) would not have done this years ago but then again guess they like their jobs as much as the next guy.

UF is lucky they have 3 ACE's so if Barnhill is getting called for IPs, Tim Walton has options. As [MENTION=10413]riseball[/MENTION] has pointed out, Barnhill is not illegal on every pitching she throws, just the ones where she puts some extra uummpphh on the pitch. The pitchers who are illegal on every pitch are the ones that really struggle when they are finally called on it (think Sara Nevins of USF).

 

[JAD]

Hard to tell, the plant foot landing spot pitching from a mound is lower than the drive foot, so you still have the effect of being able to get the catapult body tilt action like you get n a crow hop. Make the mound flat like in softball and the answer is crow hop though.

A mound is definitely an advantage for a MLB pitcher, but when done properly pushing off a pitching plate should provide more "drive" than pushing off dirt. The only advantage of the crow hop is the forward momentum created before the throw.

I think we should get [MENTION=10413]riseball[/MENTION] to ask Jake to do an experiment for us. Throw her regular legal pitch off a pitching plate and then throw with a one step "walk through" off dirt to see which pitch is faster....

 

[riseball]

I'm 100% on your side but I just don't know that I would go this far. Has anyone every sat down and explained it to her; does she assume she is just in a gray area and that sometimes her toe touches and sometimes it does not just like alot of pitchers (problem is most pitchers[with a little hop they are trying hard to fix] are legal 90%+ and where she is illegal 90%+); maybe she is making an effort but when she needs more power she reverts back. I'm just not ready to throw her in with the PED and corked bat crowd just yet.

Sad thing is it will only take one game and all her hard work and effort will go down the drain...imagine Game 3 in CWS final and she takes the circle and an umpire decides enough is enough (maybe he does not ever get a CWS game again [since they probably instruct them not to call it]but they can't pull him in the middle of the game) and calls her for IP every pitch until Walton has to pull her from the game and she can't pitch any more then what? Florida is lucky they have several good pitchers. She will have to bust her butt in the off season until she figures it out. Just don't understand why someone (umpire) would not have done this years ago but then again guess they like their jobs as much as the next guy.

You make a good point and considering what you said I have one question:

Is it reasonable to conclude that after a decade she is aware that she is illegal, and that given her athletic ability and the resources at Florida it is possible for her to pitch legally but chooses not to?

I think the only plausible answer is yes. If that is the case how do you not place her with the PED and corked bat crowd?

 

[pumpkinbear]

When Barnhill replants, is she really pushing again or does her toe just make contact with the ground? I cannot tell if she is really re pushing or not.

Barnhill is repushing. Look at her back (drive) knee:



In the 4th frame, you can see Barnhill's back knee reload for a second push. Ocasio's does not.

This is easy to see, even in real time. IMO, no excuse for not calling it or legalizing it.

 

[STRIKE3]

This is off topic but has anyone noticed to amazing amount of overlap she gets??!! Simply amazing. We talk about drive mechanics and obtaining great overlap to ensure great whip. If I have ever seen an example that totally "clicks" for my DD the .gif on the first page of this thread is it. Ya, she does do some semi-illegal things but wow, what a good .gif to learn from as it pertains to overlap. Thanks for posting it!

Really good point on overlap that I will take away from this discussion!