The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[RubberBiscuit]

Call me old fashion or whatever you want but I have a whole bunch of SB conference games saved up and if I see a skippy (renamed "A Barnhill") in a game I will fast-forward/delete past it like it never existed. Until the gutless regulatory folks grow a pair and clean this up I refuse to acknowledge all the cheaters. There is legal and there is illegal. Of course umpires will have tough times on marginal cases. This is expected. But the Barnhill case is just an extreme "in your face" moment in violation of the still-on-the-books rule. Her parents/pitching coach/Florida coaching staff just expects us all to swallow this injustice. Not this guy.

 

[riseball]

Call me old fashion or whatever you want but I have a whole bunch of SB conference games saved up and if I see a skippy (renamed "A Barnhill") in a game I will fast-forward/delete past it like it never existed. Until the gutless regulatory folks grow a pair and clean this up I refuse to acknowledge all the cheaters. There is legal and there is illegal. Of course umpires will have tough times on marginal cases. This is expected. But the Barnhill case is just an extreme "in your face" moment in violation of the still-on-the-books rule. Her parents/pitching coach/Florida coaching staff just expects us all to swallow this injustice. Not this guy.

You forgot to mention long time skippy enabler Ken Eriksen who is her coach on the Women's National Team.

 

[djcarter1966]

Well call me Johnny come lately but since I could not bear to watch my beloved Spurs get beat to oblivion I flipped over to the SEC network and saw Barnhill for the first time.

My first thought was exactly what someone else posted her mechanics are completely a "hot mess" and then I watch her mow down batter after batter and throw in the high 60s and I'm like how is this possible; the leaping , no brush interference, leaning sideways, etc.

Then the light bulb went on; I don't have any doubt that she was taught by a men's softball pitcher the motion, the jump, the replant, the landing out of the lane, watch a men's game and it's exactly what you would see.

It's not that it a BAD per se...it's just not legal in women's softball. I think she could go to any men's league and be 100% legal but the rules are simply not the same.

 

[Lenski]

I find it interesting that the resident umpire experts (Comp, Bretman, etc.) are not coming anywhere near this thread.

 

[mothgirl]

I think someone asked why would there be an advantage over pushing off the ground instead of from the rubber? Well because she's pushing off of both, that's why the advantage, she gets 2 pushes, her initial drive off the rubber is push one then she's pushes again off the ground, that's clearly an advantage for speed!
I'm not gonna knock her, because even illegal, she had to work her tail off to get where she is.
I do agree if the Umps aren't going to have the balls to call it, and keep calling it, then they need to change the rules!

The bottom line is, it's really not fair that some pitchers get to break the rules and some don't, because some umps call it and some don't.

What's most frustrating to me is seeing a pitcher get called for something really stupid like coming to the rubber without her hands together, but the other pitcher is crow hoping all day long and never called!!Why is it so important that the hands be separated but a crow hop that's ok?


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[Boomers2012]

So,let me pose a question. Everyone is saying cheaters are cheaters no matter what. I don't disagree. However, would you consider Monica Abbott, Jennie Finch, Blair Luna, Cat Osterman and about a few dozen more upper level pitchers cheaters? Everyone of the aforementioned pitchers either take a gym step off of the rubber, raise their push foot off of the rubber, leap an inch or two, push outside of little lines drawn from the rubber to the end of the circle and a couple of them push clear outside the circle. Those things are illegal. If everyone is bashing the Barnhill girl being such a cheater then you better be bashing all the rest. Because remember a cheater is a cheater, right? I guarantee you the sport would not be where it is today without the great pitchers I mentioned above. So, because they are all cheaters we should just ban them all from the sport, right?

 

[riseball]

So,let me pose a question. Everyone is saying cheaters are cheaters no matter what. I don't disagree. However, would you consider Monica Abbott, Jennie Finch, Blair Luna, Cat Osterman and about a few dozen more upper level pitchers cheaters? Everyone of the aforementioned pitchers either take a gym step off of the rubber, raise their push foot off of the rubber, leap an inch or two, push outside of little lines drawn from the rubber to the end of the circle and a couple of them push clear outside the circle. Those things are illegal. If everyone is bashing the Barnhill girl being such a cheater then you better be bashing all the rest. Because remember a cheater is a cheater, right? I guarantee you the sport would not be where it is today without the great pitchers I mentioned above. So, because they are all cheaters we should just ban them all from the sport, right?

I do not think anyone has mentioned a ban until you threw that strawman out. Illegal is illegal. It does not get more simple than that. Pitch legally or yes you are cheating regardless of who you are or your accomplishments. No player, coach, or program is above the rules.

Recently Barnhill was credited for a no hitter. Does anyone think this would have been possible had she not knowingly broke the rules and without complicit umpires that simply looked the other way for political expediency? Bottom line is her alleged accomplishments this season are a farce. No different than being juiced or using an illegal bat.

 

[Boomers2012]

Riseball, we could argue until the cows come home but we would end up at the same place. I never said anyone is above the rules, quite the contrary. It's up to the umpires to call it. You, me and the entire the board can say this is illegal or that illegal but until the rules are enforced it's all futile. Look, I mean no disrespect to you or the board. I'm aware of who are are and I know you are a good guy with a lot to add to the softball community. However, in my opinion, we can't pick and choose who we want to bash just based on who they are and more importantly who they are not.

 

[riseball]

Riseball, we could argue until the cows come home but we would end up at the same place. I never said anyone is above the rules, quite the contrary. It's up to the umpires to call it. You, me and the entire the board can say this is illegal or that illegal but until the rules are enforced it's all futile. Look, I mean no disrespect to you or the board. I'm aware of who are are and I know you are a good guy with a lot to add to the softball community. However, in my opinion, we can't pick and choose who we want to bash just based on who they are and more importantly who they are not.

I agree with most of what you are saying. But unlike most players, Barnhill like Nevins before her is an extreme case. Understand that I am not picking and choosing with Barnhill. Like many on this board I will quickly call out any skippy for what they are, cheaters. This is not the case of a young pitcher just learning and struggling with the mechanics. Rather she is the poster child for a player that throughout her career has been surrounded by enablers in awe of what she can accomplish outside of the rules. Not one person I have ever spoken to has argued that she is legal. They will make any excuse possible but never state she is in fact legal. It was that way in High School, Travel Ball, and now at Florida. It is a shame since she probably does have a high level of talent, but her accomplishments will be forever tainted just like many MLB players who were eventually seen for who they truly were.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Would a MLB pitcher throw faster off a pitching rubber or doing a crow hop in the outfield?

Hard to tell, the plant foot landing spot pitching from a mound is lower than the drive foot, so you still have the effect of being able to get the catapult body tilt action like you get n a crow hop. Make the mound flat like in softball and the answer is crow hop though.