Supination of Left (bottom) Wrist

[turnin2]

It is also designed to take one side of the golf course out of play. You will never hook the ball. Worst case, maybe, is a pull. It is a body release opposed to a wrist forearm release. Another way to do it is bow your wrist as you go into the lag position.

 

[Buttermaker]

Some in golf world believed/believe that the wrists only need to extend and flex. They never hold a position of either - it is a constant change of movement once the back swing starts. There is no "rolling" of the forearms.

It applies to a softball/baseball swing. You do not want to intentionally "roll" the forearms to start the barrel. Centrifugal force from the barrel will unfold the arms and cause the forearms to rotate.

The top wrist should dorsiflex as the barrel untips. The normal (incorrect) articulation of flattening the barrel used is radial deviation which leads to the forearm having to rotate to bring the barrel around in a wide arc.

If the hitter uses top hand dorsiflexion as the barrel untips - the hands can stay inside and the arms can fold or unfold as location is being determined.

Why are low pitches so hard to hit - it's because the wrist articulations are not right. Once the hitter uses radial deviation they are toast on the low stuff. Golf swing and low pitches are pretty much the same - both use dorsiflexion and palmarextension movements. In golf it is called flipping if you radial deviate and rotate the forearms.

Getting the wrist action correct means you can direct and throw the barrel into the ball after the core/slings set it up.

It is also designed to take one side of the golf course out of play. You will never hook the ball. Worst case, maybe, is a pull. It is a body release opposed to a wrist forearm release. Another way to do it is bow your wrist as you go into the lag position.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Both wrists ulnar deviate as the ‘barrel’ is ‘slung’ to impact.

 

[turnin2]

Ray, when did I mention rolling the forearms? Also, it is impossible to hold and keep from releasing with the wrists but the feel is to hold on and have a body release. Have you ever swung a golf club this way? I was taught by a high level instructor this exact same swing. I have first hand knowledge of that style.

 

[tjintx]

Both wrists ulnar deviate as the ‘barrel’ is ‘slung’ to impact.

Radial deviation in both wrists sets up a good 'slunging' of the barrel. Too many young hitters allow the wrists to become 'deviated' too early(turning the barrel to soon) before the body has cleared the way. Without the body leading it becomes hard for the barrel to pull the wrists into deviation through centrifugal force and direction. The result is a spin with the barrel entering and exiting the zone quickly.
simple cues of 'keep the barrel tip up longer' or 'gets the belly button to lead the hand' can help. It can be enhanced with a visual cue of dorsi-flexion.

So FFs, Does the 'slung' barrel cause the ulnar deviation or does the ulnar deviation cause the 'slung' barrel? Or is there a symmetry?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Radial deviation in both wrists sets up a good 'slunging' of the barrel. Too many young hitters allow the wrists to become 'deviated' too early(turning the barrel to soon) before the body has cleared the way. Without the body leading it becomes hard for the barrel to pull the wrists into deviation through centrifugal force and direction. The result is a spin with the barrel entering and exiting the zone quickly.
simple cues of 'keep the barrel tip up longer' or 'gets the belly button to lead the hand' can help. It can be enhanced with a visual cue of dorsi-flexion.

So FFs, Does the 'slung' barrel cause the ulnar deviation or does the ulnar deviation cause the 'slung' barrel? Or is there a symmetry?

Tjintx, I’m not sure we are discussing the same thing based on this video clip segment.

I’m speaking of “ulnar deviation” taking place into, and through, impact.

The barrel is, in a sense, ‘slung’ into impact … or ‘cast’ … and the wrists should follow a path of ulnar deviation as the barrel is ‘slung’ through impact.

Top hand radial deviation takes place prior to slinging the barrel. Top hand radial deviation largely occurs due to the change in orientation of the barrel’s arc relative to the rear forearm. As the relationship of the barrel transitions from ‘around’ the rear forearm, to ‘along’ the rear forearm (as in preparation to ‘sling’ the barrel), the top hand wrist will become ‘bent’ … or 'radially deviated'. This radial deviation is the setup for the slinging of the barrel into impact. This radial deviation is not an action that is caused by muscling the wrists, it is more an action that is occurring 'to' the wrist as the directional relationship changes.

If the question is if the ulnar deviation should be a forced action with the muscles in the wrists … the answer is ‘no’ … it is more about energy being transferred. Some folks confuse the feel of energy transfer, but the reality is that you should not be muscling the wrists into impact, but you should be allowing the energy transfer to take place ... and the movement of the wrists, into & through impact, 'should' follow a path of ulnar deviation.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Tjintx … not a perfect example, but if you will, think in terms of a trebuchet. The last piece can be thought of as a ‘sling’. In a trebuchet, force is only applied to the first section. Energy is transferred to the other smaller sections through the first section. After the action is launched, additional force is not being applied, ... it's just being transferred through.

If you are familiar with how Austin Wasserman teaches throwing … he is in a sense treating the forearm as a ‘sling’. He is ‘slinging’ his rear forearm. He is performing a forward forearm sling.

In hitting you replace the 'forearm' with the 'bat'. We ‘sling’ the barrel. In a very real sense, the barrel is ‘cast’ (slung) into and through impact.

You don’t want to overdo the concept to the point of beginning the swing by slinging … that would be ‘bat drag’, but neither do you want to overdo "turning the barrel" to the point where you short-circuit the ‘slinging’ process.

The word ‘cast’ need not be thought of as a vulgar four-letter word. It’s a real part of the swing.

 

[Buttermaker]

You didn't mention rolling forearms.

I am in the camp that thinks the club head is released immediately. If you lower half is functioning properly you cannot throw it fast enough as long as the wrists are not deviating or pronating/supinating. The wrists flex/extend and the club face is never off line.

Yes, there is a feeling of just holding on as you feel the effects of centripetal/centrifugal forces.

I think we agree - but let me know if I am wrong.

Ray, when did I mention rolling the forearms? Also, it is impossible to hold and keep from releasing with the wrists but the feel is to hold on and have a body release. Have you ever swung a golf club this way? I was taught by a high level instructor this exact same swing. I have first hand knowledge of that style.

 

[tjintx]

Tjintx, I’m not sure we are discussing the same thing based on this video clip segment.

I’m speaking of “ulnar deviation” taking place into, and through, impact.

The barrel is, in a sense, ‘slung’ into impact … or ‘cast’ … and the wrists should follow a path of ulnar deviation as the barrel is ‘slung’ through impact.

Top hand radial deviation takes place prior to slinging the barrel. Top hand radial deviation largely occurs due to the change in orientation of the barrel’s arc relative to the rear forearm. As the relationship of the barrel transitions from ‘around’ the rear forearm, to ‘along’ the rear forearm (as in preparation to ‘sling’ the barrel), the top hand wrist will become ‘bent’ … or 'radially deviated'. This radial deviation is the setup for the slinging of the barrel into impact. This radial deviation is not an action that is caused by muscling the wrists, it is more an action that is occurring 'to' the wrist as the directional relationship changes.

If the question is if the ulnar deviation should be a forced action with the muscles in the wrists … the answer is ‘no’ … it is more about energy being transferred. Some folks confuse the feel of energy transfer, but the reality is that you should not be muscling the wrists into impact, but you should be allowing the energy transfer to take place ... and the movement of the wrists, into & through impact, 'should' follow a path of ulnar deviation.

The bolded above cut right to the chase. I agree the ulnar deviation will be a result. I thought it was important to state it so parents won't stand in front of there kids or students demonstrating "forced ulnar deviation". and for the parents/instructors to look for ulnar deviation as a result of proper mechanics flowing outwards from the body.

 

[turnin2]

You didn't mention rolling forearms.

I am in the camp that thinks the club head is released immediately. If you lower half is functioning properly you cannot throw it fast enough as long as the wrists are not deviating or pronating/supinating. The wrists flex/extend and the club face is never off line.

Yes, there is a feeling of just holding on as you feel the effects of centripetal/centrifugal forces.

I think we agree - but let me know if I am wrong.

I should probably have some coffee and wake up first before posting from my phone. I was a little snappy in my reply. I am not sure I am following releasing the club immediately . Are saying the feel from the top is to have the back of your bottom hand feel like it is looking at the ball? I am probably way off here, but I need to spend more time reading through your words.