Strike? Foul Ball? HBP?

[SoCal_Dad]

I agree with what others wrote, but there is need for some clarity in the actual play. There is a difference between getting hit after the batter has swung and getting hit while the batter is swinging.

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging?

Assuming it was not in the strike zone, in order for it to be called a strike, the batter must have actually swung at the time of contact. Any follow through after contact is 100%, unequivocally irrelevant.

I presume that is because the ball is dead upon contact. There are cases where the batters actions prior to being contacted make it very difficult to determine whether they had offered at the pitch (i.e. DB strike) vs. checked their swing and subsequent movements were an attempt to evade the ball and/or protect themselves (HBP). Hmm...

 

[Umpire]

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging?


I presume that is because the ball is dead upon contact. There are cases where the batters actions prior to being contacted make it very difficult to determine whether they had offered at the pitch (i.e. DB strike) vs. checked their swing and subsequent movements were an attempt to evade the ball and/or protect themselves (HBP). Hmm...

Let's break it down in terms of priority:

1. Is the pitch in the strike zone? If so, you have a strike no matter what, along with whatever else is appropriate (dead ball, strike, maybe strike three, etc).

2. If the pitch is not in the strike zone, did the batter swing prior to the ball contacting her? Again, if she swung, you're going to have the same stuff as in #1.

3. If the pitch is not in the strike zone and the batter has not swung, you have to look at the specific rulebook to see what if any onus is on the batter to "avoid" being hit with the pitch.

A. Regardless of what the subsequent call is going to be, ANY TIME a pitched ball strikes the batter, the ball is dead.

B. When the uncaught third strike rule is in effect and the batter gets hit by a pitch ruled a strike, she does not get to advance to first base because the ball is dead.

C. Umpires must use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning when making rulings on whether a batter has attempted to strike the ball. Too many people, including umpires, will only focus on whether the bat crossed the plate. That is NOT the rule. All rulebooks address whether the batter "attempted to strike the ball" or very similar language. Rulebooks and manuals offer guidance to help make that determination (e.g., did the bat cross the plane of the plate, did the batter roll her wrists, did the batter swing and then bring the bat back, etc.).

D. One play I will see once or twice a year is a batter in the process of swinging at a high pitch gets drilled in the helmet with the ball. A few things to consider here. A batter can't simply abandon momentum. It is unrealistic to require a batter to avoid the pitch in this circumstance. Even if the bat head continues across the plate, there is very little chance of the pitch being called a strike (correctly). Can a batter, who has extended her arms such that the bat is parallel with the ground, attempt to strike at a ball that is going to hit her in the head less than a second later? So, if she has not already committed to the swing at her "Oh $h1t" moment, you shouldn't have a strike.

Just some food for thought.

 

[MT 73]

Let's break it down in terms of priority:

1. Is the pitch in the strike zone? If so, you have a strike no matter what, along with whatever else is appropriate (dead ball, strike, maybe strike three, etc).

2. If the pitch is not in the strike zone, did the batter swing prior to the ball contacting her? Again, if she swung, you're going to have the same stuff as in #1.

3. If the pitch is not in the strike zone and the batter has not swung, you have to look at the specific rulebook to see what if any onus is on the batter to "avoid" being hit with the pitch.

A. Regardless of what the subsequent call is going to be, ANY TIME a pitched ball strikes the batter, the ball is dead.

B. When the uncaught third strike rule is in effect and the batter gets hit by a pitch ruled a strike, she does not get to advance to first base because the ball is dead.

C. Umpires must use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning when making rulings on whether a batter has attempted to strike the ball. Too many people, including umpires, will only focus on whether the bat crossed the plate. That is NOT the rule. All rulebooks address whether the batter "attempted to strike the ball" or very similar language. Rulebooks and manuals offer guidance to help make that determination (e.g., did the bat cross the plane of the plate, did the batter roll her wrists, did the batter swing and then bring the bat back, etc.).

D. One play I will see once or twice a year is a batter in the process of swinging at a high pitch gets drilled in the helmet with the ball. A few things to consider here. A batter can't simply abandon momentum. It is unrealistic to require a batter to avoid the pitch in this circumstance. Even if the bat head continues across the plate, there is very little chance of the pitch being called a strike (correctly). Can a batter, who has extended her arms such that the bat is parallel with the ground, attempt to strike at a ball that is going to hit her in the head less than a second later? So, if she has not already committed to the swing at her "Oh $h1t" moment, you shouldn't have a strike.

Just some food for thought.

Thank you for one of the finest explanations on this subject that I have ever read.
This should be a part of the A.S.A's rules supplement section.

 

[chinamigarden]

Let's break it down in terms of priority:

1. Is the pitch in the strike zone? If so, you have a strike no matter what, along with whatever else is appropriate (dead ball, strike, maybe strike three, etc).

2. If the pitch is not in the strike zone, did the batter swing prior to the ball contacting her? Again, if she swung, you're going to have the same stuff as in #1.

3. If the pitch is not in the strike zone and the batter has not swung, you have to look at the specific rulebook to see what if any onus is on the batter to "avoid" being hit with the pitch.

A. Regardless of what the subsequent call is going to be, ANY TIME a pitched ball strikes the batter, the ball is dead.

B. When the uncaught third strike rule is in effect and the batter gets hit by a pitch ruled a strike, she does not get to advance to first base because the ball is dead.

C. Umpires must use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning when making rulings on whether a batter has attempted to strike the ball. Too many people, including umpires, will only focus on whether the bat crossed the plate. That is NOT the rule. All rulebooks address whether the batter "attempted to strike the ball" or very similar language. Rulebooks and manuals offer guidance to help make that determination (e.g., did the bat cross the plane of the plate, did the batter roll her wrists, did the batter swing and then bring the bat back, etc.).

D. One play I will see once or twice a year is a batter in the process of swinging at a high pitch gets drilled in the helmet with the ball. A few things to consider here. A batter can't simply abandon momentum. It is unrealistic to require a batter to avoid the pitch in this circumstance. Even if the bat head continues across the plate, there is very little chance of the pitch being called a strike (correctly). Can a batter, who has extended her arms such that the bat is parallel with the ground, attempt to strike at a ball that is going to hit her in the head less than a second later? So, if she has not already committed to the swing at her "Oh $h1t" moment, you shouldn't have a strike.

Just some food for thought.

Using that logic a batter who swings at a ball she has no chance of hitting gets a ball called. That makes no sense. Its one thing to say when a batter twirls out of the way and that causes the bat to cross the plate... but to say she extends her arms... thats a swing.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Let's break it down in terms of priority:
...
Just some food for thought.

A fine explanation of some rules, but it doesn't answer my question about your previous post. Let's try again...

I agree with what others wrote, but there is need for some clarity in the actual play. There is a difference between getting hit after the batter has swung and getting hit while the batter is swinging.

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging?

 

[Umpire]

A fine explanation of some rules, but it doesn't answer my question about your previous post. Let's try again...

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate ***WHAT IS DESCRIBED HERE IS A SWING, FOLLOWED BY CONTACT*** and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging ***THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC ENOUGH. WAS THE SWING COMPLETE? WERE THE HANDS IN THE STRIKE ZONE? ETC.

 

[Umpire]

Using that logic a batter who swings at a ball she has no chance of hitting gets a ball called. That makes no sense. Its one thing to say when a batter twirls out of the way and that causes the bat to cross the plate... but to say she extends her arms... thats a swing.

You do not understand the logic and therefore are applying inaccurately. I said that the umpire must determine whether the batter attempted to strike the ball. Something does not have to be possible for someone to attempt to do it. That's often what makes something an attempt as opposed to an accomplishment. In your play, your batter is attempting to strike a ball that she simply doesn't have a chance hitting. That makes her a bad hitter; it doesn't turn a strike into a ball.

 

[Greenmonsters]

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate ***WHAT IS DESCRIBED HERE IS A SWING, FOLLOWED BY CONTACT*** and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging ***THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC ENOUGH. WAS THE SWING COMPLETE? WERE THE HANDS IN THE STRIKE ZONE? ETC.

"while swinging" is very specific. I would be curious to know when exactly a swing is complete? After the barrel (or knob) starts moving forward? After passing the check swing point? At contact? At extension? After recoil? Once dropped?

 

[SoCal_Dad]

What's the difference between getting hit after missing an inside pitch off the plate ***WHAT IS DESCRIBED HERE IS A SWING, FOLLOWED BY CONTACT*** and getting hit on the fingers/hand while swinging ***THIS IS NOT SPECIFIC ENOUGH. WAS THE SWING COMPLETE? WERE THE HANDS IN THE STRIKE ZONE? ETC.

LOL I'm asking for clarification on a very broad statement you made - and I'm the one not specific enough? Okay pot, "hands" isn't specific enough - the ball was not in the strike zone.

Please explain what you mean by a swing being "complete" so I can understand the distinction you're trying to make between "has swung" and "is swinging."

... There is a difference between getting hit after the batter has swung and getting hit while the batter is swinging. Assuming it was not in the strike zone, in order for it to be called a strike, the batter must have actually swung at the time of contact. ...

 

[Umpire]

LOL I'm asking for clarification on a very broad statement you made - and I'm the one not specific enough? Okay pot, "hands" isn't specific enough - the ball was not in the strike zone.

Please explain what you mean by a swing being "complete" so I can understand the distinction you're trying to make between "has swung" and "is swinging."

Okay. So this comes down to an English lesson. "Swung" is the past tense verb form of "swing". It means that the act has already occurred. "Is swinging" is a progressive verb. A progressive verb is an act that has begun, is continuing at the moment and has not yet been completed.