Stay in 12U or move up to 14U?

[jaguars2010]

iasoftballmom:

As a high school coach I want a kid who is coachable, dedicated and confident. What better way to build confidence than to allow her to be the "top gun". Moving her up too early could have an adverse result and reinforce bad habits. Again, too much too fast. I have found kids that were dominate at the younger age groups are not so dominate at the upper age groups and some that were average at the younger groups advance beyond their counterparts.

Let her be successful. If she wants to fill in for a 14U team later on this summer let her.

Good luck!

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about what may or may not happen on HS team in the future. Things change, pitchers develop at different speeds, people move, etc... What A pitcher needs at 12/13/14 is confidence; She needs to be on the best team possible where she is going to be getting time in the circle and where she is capable of being dominant.

 

[JNew0872]

Sorry reviving old thread...

Can someone define dominant pitcher?

My DD is 12u but will age up in January. The team she is currently on is moving up in fall to 14u. She is a pitcher. She is not dominant from my definition (tons of strikeouts, some no hitters, etc. and almost no losses). She is effective. Fastest pitch is 48 to 51. Has a nice drop and a change up. Has more wins than losses, 3-5 strikeouts per game (usually 4-5 innings), 0-1 walk per game, hit batters rare, has never thrown a no-no or perfect game, but has thrown quite a few 1-hitters. Holds most teams to less than 3 runs.

Most true 2000 birth year teams are moving up to 14u in fall to prepare and make adjustments for spring season when they have to move up. I'm trying to decide if I move my DD up. PC and HC says she is ready and will do fine. Coach of another team who is trying to recruit her says keep her down and let her dominate. Here is my thing...I have yet to see a dominant pitcher and my DD plays A ball tournaments? Around here, most teams that have to age up in spring move up in fall except for those teams that are trophy chasing so if she moves up, she should be facing 1999/2000 teams (some combined and some true) with the occasional 98s.

My DD would be #2 pitcher on 14u fall team.
DD is not interested in recruiting coach's team because it is a 2001 team that is going to play B tournaments. Her current team played in some B tournaments this year before moving up to A tournaments and she did "dominate" in B tournaments with lots of 1 hitters and shutouts and 0 losses.

I'm worried about her getting banged up a little moving up but I also think she will adjust just like she did moving from B ball to A ball tournaments.

Opinions?

 

[halskinner]

IA,

One huge fact that is most definitely true; What makes a pitcher 'Great', is facing and defeating 'Great' hitters. Here is another saying that is also true ; Before you can consider yourself a winner, you must furst experience losing.

I had a similar kind of situation a year out of high school when I moved out of the are I grew up in.

Here is a chapter from one of my books. Exactly how applicable to your dauighters situation, I am not sure but it is something to think about. I hope it helps.


PLAYING UP TO THE CHALLENGE ã 1999,2001

In my years of competition I accumulated many trophies. Several years ago I got tired of dusting them all off every week. I took off the name plates and donated them to a charity that could use them. I did, however, hang on to a few of the ones I was most proud of and a couple that brought back warm memories.

One of the trophies I kept was a small one, the first one I ever earned as an adult. It read: "Most Valuable Pitcher, 1974, Hayward Men's Fast Pitch, "D" League".

I joined a team right out of High School. The guys on that team were sports writers, 'typewriter pounders', as they described themselves. They told me right from the start that they were not very good players and they seldom won but they were a good bunch of guys and they always had a lot of fun. So I joined the team.

They were right. Anyone that made it to 1st, pretty much got a free trip to home plate. I believe we placed 9th out of 12 teams that year, however, I won the MV Pitcher trophy for the league. I did have a lot of fun with those guys, they were a blast and we laughed about everything.

During the season with that team I got a few calls from other teams. The other teams asked me to jump ship and pitch for them, all of them were teams in higher leagues. I said no because I made a commitment to the guys and I would stick it out with them for the rest of the season. That was my first season playing in ASA competition.

A few years after I gave those trophies away, a friend of mine came to my house. He asked me, "Why did you hang on to this little hunk-a-junk from D league? You have these other trophies and plaques from the metros, regionals and nationals and those are all A league. How come you kept this one"?

I kept that trophy so I would never forget where I came from in softball. Those were some of my softball roots.

I did not play for that team the next year. The manager would have, no doubt, welcomed me back with open arms. He never called me because the whole team knew what my answer would be. I am glad he did not call me because I would have hated to tell them no. I was going to move up and they were not. Every player on the team knew that, without one word being said.

We had all played to the best of our ability for the 'team'. Now it was time for me to move up. I have very fond memories of those guys and the fun we had playing on that team. I will never forget them.

When I came home with that trophy, I asked my Dad if he thought I was good enough to play B league the next year. This was about a 6 level jump at the time, from D to B. He chuckled and said, "I guess you'll never know till you try, huh"? If you knew my Dad then, you would understand that he was challenging me. My Dad was a B league pitcher at that time, having worked his way up from D league over a 15 year period.

Before the next season arrived I took a job out of the area. I did not play the next season.

The next year I checked around and found a team that was looking for a pitcher. I told them I did real well in D league 2 years ago. The coach then pointed out that they were an 'A' division travel team but it was OK if I wanted to come and try out for the team.

So I came out and did my best. The catcher and assistant coach wanted me to play for them because they saw potential. The head coach did not agree. I was too young in his mind to be an effective A travel pitcher. However, they needed a third stringer so I was asked to join the team.

The head coach was very sincere and diplomatic in his talk with me. I will never forget what he said, "As long as you can get in the game and throw like an A travel pitcher, we'll give ya a try but the moment you start throwing like a D league pitcher, it's over".

We both knew that I had been challenged. My Dad's words from 2 years before started ringing in my ears.

Either I stepped up to that challenge and met it head on, or I could look for a D league team.

My competition for the #1 pitching spot were two 40 year old veteran Open A division pitchers. By the end of our first season, I was the #1 gun. I saw what my competition was on the pitching staff. I stepped up to that challenge.

I saw what my competition was against the batters I would be facing. I stepped up to that challenge.

We won both leagues we were in and almost all of the tournaments we entered the first year together in A travel competition.

The next year we did the same thing except we went on to win the metro tournament, then the regionals and then the A div National Tourney. I was voted the MV Pitcher of that tourney.

I made some choices and they were not easy ones. I chose to step up to the challenge because I had to. I had to because I could not stand not knowing if I had what it took to make it as a pitcher in a higher level.

The bigger the challenge, the harder it is and the better a pitcher will perform.

When I moved up, I left some good friends and a very nice coach behind. If I would have chosen to stay with that D league team, out of devotion to the team or friendship to them, I would have never really stepped up to the challenge. We might have slowly worked our way up to B league, like my Dad's team, over 15 years. We may have still been playing D league after 15 years, who knows?

Here is the big kick finish questions for young pitchers;

If you had your pick of the trophy you wanted, would it be a 1st place 'B' National Trophy or a 1st place 'A' National Trophy? If you pitched your team to a 1st place win at the 'B' nationals, would you be good enough to beat the team that took LAST place at the 'A' Nationals?

To quote my Dad one more time, "I guess you'll never know till you try, huh"?

 

[Jojo]

Jnew, your daughter sounds like she'd do well in 14u, and may actually benefit playing up. If she's happy with the team she's on, she should do fine, better than staying down in 12u and playing B level. Sure she may dominate there, but she'll become a better pitcher playing up with her team, and being a better pitcher is better than dominating at a lower level, she's also going to have some real catching up to do next year if she stays in B ball all year.

 

[JNew0872]

Hal and Jojo,

Thank you for your responses. I think I knew the answer but just had some doubt creep in when this other coach approached me. Just wanted to make sure making the right choice.

Thanks again!

 

[Bucketmom]

I am in the same situation. I am moving DD up to 14U rec in fall for a little more challenge but leaving her in 12u tb to keep her "swagger". In spring she will move up to 14u tb. She is a 2000 and we want her playing up not down.

 

[sleepwalker]

Is your dd ready to move up to the longer distance of 14u? The extra 3 feet is much longer then it sounds.

My dd moved to 43' from 40' three years ago when she turned 15 years old. My dd wasn't strong enough at 15 years old to throw at 43' and struggled a lot during that year. The previous year when she was 14 years old, she threw in a few 16U tournaments at 40' and did just fine. At 43' she began throwing a lot of balls in the dirt. I realized then that the difference between 40' and 43' is huge.

Think about it, if the bases were moved back just 3' from 60' to 63', how much more difficult would it be to get a base hit on a bunt? How much more inneffective would a slap hitter be? How many more girls would get thrown out stealing 2nd base? They didn't move the pitchers back 3' in girls fastpitch softball so that girls could get better movement on their pitches and strike more girls out. They moved the pitchers back 3' so that there was more offense in girls fastpitch softball and in theory make it a more viewer friendly game.

Having watched my dd go from 40' to 43' at age 15, if I had a chance to keep her down at 12U and throw at 40' for another year I would. At the same time, I would look for 14U travel teams to be used as a pickup pitcher on weekends where her 12U team wasn't playing. Why USSSA and ASA went to 43' at 14U, I don't know. What is happening to 12, 13 and 14 year old girls in the last couple of years where they are getting that much stronger? Did you know that men's fastpitch softball pitchers throw at 46'? That is only 3' further back than your 13 and 14 year old daughers.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

 

[JNew0872]

"Is your dd ready to move up to the longer distance of 14u? The extra 3 feet is much longer then it sounds."

This is something I thought about. She has twice by accident pitched from 43' when the pitching rubber was not moved forward from a 14u game. She actually did fine both those games and both those games were last fall. I know there is going to be an adjustment for the 3' I guess it is just a matter of whether it is done during the fall or during the spring.

 

[Gbucz]

.... They didn't move the pitchers back 3' in girls fastpitch softball so that girls could get better movement on their pitches and strike more girls out. They moved the pitchers back 3' so that there was more offense in girls fastpitch softball and in theory make it a more viewer friendly game.

I would disagree with this. My DD at first year 12 was starting to get good movement. She was 5'5" and throwing hard but still getting hit at 40'. We got on a 43' field to do some practice and found her fastball sometimes had a wicked drop to it with the extra distance. That is when we discovered the difference between 2 and 4 seam spins and viola! she had a movement pitch she didn't know about. We moved her to a 14U team and played several 43' tourneys and she did well. At the end of the year we were @ a 40' tourney and she was getting hit again. The next year she was up a level, throwing 43', moving the ball and getting stronger.

She is 17 now at 5'9" and still breaking balls @ the front of the plate making batters look stupid.

With regard to moving your DD up I would say if she has the size and maturity to fit with the older girls then move. If not, then stay down and work hard.