Should we use MLB hitters as examples?

[SBFAMILY]

Tweks, besides Bustos here are the ones that have video that we use. Amanda Freed, Leah Amico, Lovie Jung, Natasha Watley, Stacey Nuveman & Toni Mascaremas. I also have many baseball players on my laptop. What I try to do is pick a frame based on what style my hitter has in relationship to the hitter. If my kid for example is built like Stacey, as Howard pointed out, that might be the best person I can freeze frame at say Toe Touch to show the girl what I'm trying to get them to do. I use Watley on the lefty type slappers , if I'm working on hitting. Hope that helps.

 

[Tewks]

Tweks, besides Bustos here are the ones that have video that we use. Amanda Freed, Leah Amico, Lovie Jung, Natasha Watley, Stacey Nuveman & Toni Mascaremas. I also have many baseball players on my laptop. What I try to do is pick a frame based on what style my hitter has in relationship to the hitter. If my kid for example is built like Stacey, as Howard pointed out, that might be the best person I can freeze frame at say Toe Touch to show the girl what I'm trying to get them to do. I use Watley on the lefty type slappers , if I'm working on hitting. Hope that helps.

Very much so. Thank you!

 

[Cannonball]

Howard, excellent post. My dd wrapped up her speed and quickness training last night with an evaluation by her trainer. Your points about the anatomy of a young lady, tendencies that young ladies tend to do that aren't as efficient, etc. is spot on. Her trainer did RVP side by sides of before and afters and then her side by side with elite track athletes both male and female. WOW! He constantly pointed out her anatomy and how she will have to overcome much of that because people built for speed are not built like her. So, and again, I'm in agreement with much of your last post. Having said that, thorughtout the process her trainer has done this and so, she has made significant improvements. For example, knowing her anatomy and trying to work with her, her broad jump improved over 13 inches in 4 months. That is significant and so, a correlation does exist for using video of the best. Still, the approach does have to factor in much of what Howard has said. (I hope this makes sense. I've been interrupted about 5 times since I started and so this little post has taken a lot of times.

 

[Wellphyt]

Howard, you rasied some interesting questions. My responses are in bold. As I've stated on here before, I believe fastpitch hitting is in a state of transformation which often times leads to players, coaches, instructors and parents being on separate paths at times. I would like to think that a healthy exchange of ideas within the fastpitch community will eventually lead to all of us ending up in the same place.

Bob

If you were a male coach working with a girl and said stand taller in the box like Chipper Jones....would that be relevant to your female student?

Put in your mind she has no idea who Chipper may be however in her mind she is being told to stand taller in the box like the MLB player. Now did you , and I am not saying you in particular, so please do not take offense, may not know the difference in the female balance point and that is they can not stand up right and keep the core engaged? Now pick Manny and he hits more like a girl than most MLB players I have seen as he sits down a little lower. Many have said Bustos looks more like him when it comes to hitting.

I view the batting stance as an individual style choice and not part of technique. When it comes to the batting stance I offer basic guidelines and let the girls find a stance that they are comfortable with. The feet can't be too wide or too narrow; IMO shoulder width apart is a good rule of thumb. I believe a few inches of lateral separation between the feet is important to maintain balance throughtout the entire swing. It is very difficult to stay balanced if the feet are lined up one behind the other. I also do my best to convince the girls to start with their hands at shoulder height. This isn't mandatory, but IMO there is no reason to start the hands any higher than the highest strike that will be called. Ultimately, the girls need to adopt a stance that makes them comfortable in the batter's box, and allows them to get into the universal launch position ON TIME.

Personally I think it's nuts to tell a girl to stand like Chipper Jones or any MLB player in the batter's box. Most girls do not follow baseball enough to be familar with the various batting stances of individual MLB players. So I agree with you on this point.

Lets take the elbows next...when the back elbow slots, lowers, if the MLB player is more up right and the female is more bent at the waist as she needs to be so as to be balanced and this is a medical fact, then lets add in a 38 C breast size and the fact the female gains more mass in the chest than the male. Now lets use the MLB person as to elbow clearing the hip however it must stay close to the hip. How do you Mr. Male coach, again not picking on you, explain why he looks that way verses what I have to do coach to clear my hips. Do we explain they need to start their hands further away so they can clear the breast and hip. How does this effect the rear elbow slotting and how does the lead elbow start its upward movement staying connected? Remember I am a female, coach and I am tilted a little more over the plate at the hips than you and the person you are comparing me to in the MLB picture is a little more upright.

I'm really struggling here to respond to this without it coming across as confrontational. Generally speaking, I do not buy into the whole gender argument that is being made here. Probably the safest way for me to answer this is to say that my wife has been a physical therapist for 18 years. Everytime the gender argument gets raised I consult my wife and have her duplicate the various movements being questioned. Both my daughter and my wife can duplicate the movement that I see MLB players like Pujols using to get their hands flat (lower the rear elbow). According to my wife, the new way my daughter is getting her hands flat is preferable to the old way because the front forearm naturally gets quickly raised away from the chest area very early in the swing. The hands turn over and go around with the rear shoulder rather than push forward. IMO, and my wife's opinion, pushing the hands forward as the back elbow lowers is what can cause the hands to hit the side of the chest area. Also, neither one of them see any issue at all related to the back hip.

 

[Cannonball]

Wellphyt, I agree with Howard's points but do understand your view as well. While not hitting, if I might, I'd like to comment further on my dd's speed trainiing evaluation. At one point, in her "pro cut" assessment, a drill where she has to cut around cones and then brake and change direction, her trainer stopped the video and commented on the predisposition of young ladies to tear their ACLs. He showed her proper cut and mentioned that the anatomy of a young lady leads to more ACL tears than males on cuts such as she was doing. I know in our area, we lost our SS last year due to an ACL cut, out basketall team lost a point guard, and it seemed as if every school lost some young lady last year due to ACL tears. So, that anatomy can't be denied.

 

[SBFAMILY]

David Marshal, M.D .Medical Director, Sports Medicine Program Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Goggle this and see why women have this ACL issue that men do not. We must teach the female player differently. I have had two calls this last week of teams that lost a short stop due to a torn ACL. Both conditionining in the gym getting ready for high school softball.

 

[Wellphyt]

David Marshal, M.D .Medical Director, Sports Medicine Program Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Goggle this and see why women have this ACL issue that men do not. We must teach the female player differently. I have had two calls this last week of teams that lost a short stop due to a torn ACL. Both conditionining in the gym getting ready for high school softball.

I live in the Metro Atlanta area and my wife has practiced here for most of her career. It wouldn't surprise me if my wife has heard Dr. Marshal speak at one of the many seminars and continuing education courses she has attended over the years. Most of the patients my wife sees are referred by othopedic surgeons like Dr. Marshall.

I did google Dr Marshall as you recommended and watched an excellent video interview with Dr Marshall discussing ACL injuries among female athletes. My understanding of what Dr Marshall is saying, may be different than others, because of my unique perspective of being married to a physical therapist for 25 years. What I hear Dr. Marshall saying, is that female athletes can lower the incidence of ACL injuries by strengthening the various muscles that support the knee joint. This approach would be very consistent with how my wife views the differences between men and women. Yes there are slight differences between how the male and female body work, but in most cases these differences can be marginalized by waking up weaker muscles and stetching others.

Even though the ACL issue Dr. Marshall was discussing involved the sports of basketball and soccer, I think fastpitch coaches who teach girls to hit with a closed front foot may want to watch this interview. The ACL issue is the reason I believe hitting with a closed front foot is a really bad idea for females.

I agree that there are some differences between how the male and female bodies work. However, my experience is that the differences aren't enough to prevent the female athlete from following the basic swing blueprint of a MLB player. I actually find that following the MLB blueprint is beneficial and helps the girls hit better because they use their core more, rather than their arms.

Thanks for the heads up on Dr. Marshall, I enjoyed listening to him speak.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Wellphyt, I wish others would understand what you posted about weaker muscles . I thought from your posts you might know of him. We also agree on using the core muscles instead of the arms. Way too many young girls are all arms. Both of the ACL's I posted could have been prevented if the coaches knew how to train them better. . My dd plays soccer along with softball and I gave this info to her soccer coaches.l

 

[tom.guerry]

is striding/landing with a closed front foot stressful ?

how about a pigeon toed/closed vs square or open back foot in the stance ?

 

[Wellphyt]

is striding/landing with a closed front foot stressful ?

how about a pigeon toed/closed vs square or open back foot in the stance ?

I find it stressful on my knee joint to hit with a closed front foot, but then again I'm old. It's not the landing, it's the torque/rotational forces from the backside that hurts. As Dr. Marshall points out, the knees aren't designed to work that way. Factor in his emphasis that the muscles that support the knee of the typical female athlete aren't as strong/awake as a male athlete, and IMO there is potential for injury.

I haven't found an issue with either feet while in the stance. Have you? My personal preference is that both feet are close to square.