Jen Schroeder - The Packaged Deal

[Greenmonsters]

EF - Appreciate the detailed evaluation and the care you took to be as objective as possible. IMO, JSchro's athleticism outweighs her catching mechanics and the approach/mechanics that she teaches reflects that.

I've been looking at catching instruction for almost 10 years now and NECC remains the clear leader.

 

[chrispots]

Excellent post.

I "get" your frustration...

Deep breath...

Merry Christmas!

CP

 

[chrispots]

I've been looking at catching instruction for almost 10 years now and NECC remains the clear leader.

Wow! You're "old" LOL Your wisdom here is greatly appreciated! Merry Christmas!

Sorry I cannot resist

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

I'm a big believer in getting proper mechanics built into muscle memory before trying to go fast - if you can't do it properly slowly, you will NEVER do it properly under stress in a game situation. NECC's focus on proper mechanics is a VERY important part of creating a great catcher.

Repetition of poor technique is simply reinforcing the poor technique, no matter how fast or slow you do it.

 

[Eric F]

Repetition of poor technique is simply reinforcing the poor technique, no matter how fast or slow you do it.

Exactly, and that's my biggest issue with the instruction given at Jen's clinic. She stated clearly that for the most repetitive and high-speed drills, using proper blocking form didn't matter, it was all about speed and pushing the student past the point where they physically break down. For me, that's a deal-breaker, and is a quick way to build bad habits. I agree that fitness, agility, and strength are important for a catcher. However, these things can be built within the framework of maintaining proper mechanics. Speed doesn't do you a damn bit of good when you're sitting on the bench with a broken finger because your mechanics got sloppy.

After the experience of Jen's clinic, and pondering things a bit more, I realize I'm in exactly the same position I was a week ago - with more solid conviction. I think there is some real benefit to doing rapid-fire blocking drills with catchers to improve reflexes and push their fitness. However, those drills MUST maintain proper technique on EVERY rep. If the student is unable to perform the correct technique at full speed, they need to slow down and put more focus on building their muscle memory until the correct movement is automatic.

 

[reagansdaddy]

This past Sunday I took my son to a mini-clinic on hitting being held at local facility. Ten minutes in to the 90 minute clinic the instructor was talking about swinging down on the ball to create backspin. My head nearly exploded and I really considered trying to find a nice way to get my son out of there as quickly as possible. We stayed, he got a few swings in, and the guy did have an interesting point on his batting stance that I think was valuable. In the end, I think we had a similar experience. Sometimes hearing things we disagree with forces us to examine our own position and reevaluate why we think it is the way to go.

Sounds like Jen would be an outstanding conditioning coach but maybe leaves some things to be desired as a catching instructor. I'm now looking even more forward to DD's catching camp with NECC here in Columbus in a couple months.

 

[Eric F]

This past Sunday I took my son to a mini-clinic on hitting being held at local facility. Ten minutes in to the 90 minute clinic the instructor was talking about swinging down on the ball to create backspin. My head nearly exploded and I really considered trying to find a nice way to get my son out of there as quickly as possible. We stayed, he got a few swings in, and the guy did have an interesting point on his batting stance that I think was valuable. In the end, I think we had a similar experience. Sometimes hearing things we disagree with forces us to examine our own position and reevaluate why we think it is the way to go.

Sounds like Jen would be an outstanding conditioning coach but maybe leaves some things to be desired as a catching instructor. I'm now looking even more forward to DD's catching camp with NECC here in Columbus in a couple months.

There is no doubt the conditioning aspect of Jen's clinic was phenomenal. Two days later, my DD is still very sore and is walking like the Tin Man. There are LOTS of people who love Jen's catching instruction, and she attracts college attention for her students. Her mechanics approach is just too much of a conflict with my own logic. Granted, my foundation is in NECC methods, and that has a big influence on my opinion.

 

[Jen Schro]

Hi Everyone, Jen here!

I need to start by saying, this is my first post on a board of this sort and quite possibly my last. Personally, I am not a fan of things like this, however, I was emailed this post my a number of people who agree with my methods and thought I might want to see. So, here I go...

As a player and coach I am ALWAYS learning and love to hear criticism because I believe it makes me better. I do not claim that ALL of my methods will work for EVERYONE, and truly believe different coaching styles work best for individual athletes, but, what I can guarantee are that my methods have worked for hundreds, and continue to work for many.

I have been fortunate enough to have helped produce some of the best defensive catchers in college. In fact, in the past 3 Division 1 College World Series' at least 4 of the 8 team's catchers have trained with me each year; including the last 2 World Series' Champions. With that said, I have been fortunate to develop a strong following understanding that my methods are not for everyone.

In teaching catching at an hour and a half clinic setting I first go over the skills slowly both audibly and by demonstration: this past clinic Aubree Munro and I demonstrated side by side. Here is where catcher's learn MY techniques.

As an entire group we start from the ground up, working from our blocking position up into our squat, working slowly, and with many eyes on the catchers. This last camp had 8 instructors all who played or currently play D1 softball. Once the fundamentals are taught as a group, stations are formed and the level of intensity is increased. Here, catchers will go through an array of stations, each serving a different purpose. It is my job as a coach to both teach and push an athlete. The station that Eric is referring to was a quickness blocking station. It was 1 of 6 different stations in the rotation. As a coach it is also my job to push and motivate a player. That station was run by a 3 time All-American, National Champion, and Team USA member. A top player of her time was yelling at them, motivating them, and queuing them with reminders of proper blocking techniques-to me, this experience is immeasurable to an aspiring athlete.

This station's purpose was to SHOW first hand WHERE a catcher's block, body and brain breaks down. So, in my eyes, this station proved it's purpose to Eric's daughter. Now, my hope is that Eric's daughter goes home and becomes SO good at her fundamentals she is soon able to block at that speed and eventually able to one day block a 70 mph drop ball at the Women's College World Series, in front of thousands, on ESPN, without thinking about it.

MY belief system of HOW i chose to BOTH teach slowly & then quickly may be contradictory to people who have not trained this intensely, and I understand that. I do however believe that with time and commitment, training like this has the highest upside to an athlete with the goals of playing at the elite level.

There is NO DOUBT the fundamentals are EXTREMELY important and these are the foundation of each and every one of my drills. In fact, my regular lessons whether they are 8 years old or a multi-time All-American do a fundamental routine before the start of every single lesson. However, I believe being pushed hard, having to react and work so hard you begin to question if you can do one more rep is an essential part in creating the ultimate competitor. You see, parents & coaches want their daughter's and athletes to be confident in their own abilities but aren't sure how to facilitate that. I can guarantee you that creating an environment where a female can accomplish something she once deemed impossible will breed confidence. That is my ultimate goal: to create an empowered and confident female.

As far as lifting into a higher position when a runner is on or placing your hand behind your glove hand, there was a reason they were not discussed- I don't believe in them. I have VERY strong beliefs as to WHY, but do not plan to share those here. My only advice would be to watch elite level softball: D1, PAC 12 and SEC and notice that catcher's simply do not do those things.

There are strong differences in a male and a female's body, so how we move and use our body must be different too.

With all of this said, I appreciate the time you are taking to read this thread and this post. Eric, I apologize if you were at all offended when I made an example of you yelling at Madeline from the stands. I am extremely passionate about what I do. I am very proud to have helped to create some of the best defensive catcher's this game has seen thus far and I plan to continue to work just as hard to maintain my belief that the softball-catcher is the most under-taught, yet crucial position on a softball field.

It is my goal to teach, motivate and inspire catcher's to work harder than they ever thought possible, to be proud of how they work, and to conquer things they never believed attainable. When an athlete discovers these things about themselves they become confident warriors of the game and eventually the leaders of their own lives. THAT is the ultimate goal.

Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[Eric F]

Jen -

I greatly appreciate your response. Your input on this board is welcomed - even by people who may not agree with all of your methods. Open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints is a good thing. I have no argument with the qualifications and experience of you and your fellow coaches, or the results you've gotten from you students. It's all pretty impressive. Clearly, you have a program that works for you and produces good results.

My previous post about our experience at the clinic was not intended as a bash session, but rather to reflect my honest opinion about what I observed. Unfortunately, my opinion is not all positive, but it is honest. Some of that opinion is based on belief in an approach for catchers that is different than yours, and some is based on my own experiences with learning sports and music, and understanding how the body efficiently learns new movement patterns.

As I said previously, I have a significant issues with the "quickness blocking" stations because it (IMO) breeds sloppiness that can get kids hurt. Regardless of the sparkling pedigree of the coach running the station - which is awesome, but not really relevant - I heard LOTS of positive encouragement, but not about maintaining proper blocking form (maybe your definition of "proper" is different than mine), and that's where the biggest rub is for me. I saw a physical workout that was tearing apart good mechanics. I have trouble seeing where the benefit is in that approach. In the heat of battle, at full speed, good mechanics need to be automatic and happen EVERY TIME. Doing reps filled with sloppiness doesn't build that muscle memory pattern.

The body and throwing hand position shown here ^ was discussed at the clinic. Not in great detail, but the message was loud and clear that this is a position that you are strongly against. You and at least two other coaches chimed in on this issue. We have found that working from this position in a throwing/blocking situation (runners-on, 2K) is faster for blocking, offers a wider lateral range, faster for throwing, faster for fielding, and faster for chasing down wild pitches. It works for us, and works well. As I noted before, it was interesting to observe that this body position (or similar) was used by EVERY girl on the final drill. I would be very curious to know you reasons why you disagree with this position. I hope you will stick around to discuss it.

You have your system that works for you, and a lot of people who believe in it. Clearly, you are doing well with it. It's just not for us.

I am a big believer in your ultimate goals for these young women, and the life lessons you are tying to teach. That - more than ANYTHING else - is what made the clinic so attractive, and was the single best part of the experience.

There are a lot of us on DFP who STRONGLY AGREE in your statement that catchers are the most critical, and most under-taught position on the field. No matter whether we are following your methods or not, this is something we are trying hard to change. In that goal, we are united.

Cheers and peace.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Not sure way you wouldn't like this board. I know a lot of forums are like the wild wild west but this one is pretty heavily populated with a lot of pretty knowledgeable and dedicated softball parents\instructors etc. We have our trolls of course but they are generally tame. You might find a lot of clients here too. I know I first heard of the packaged deal on this board.

One of the things you will find though is that some of us have had to weed whack through pretty bad instruction for our daughters on hitting\pitching\catching so when we find a set of instruction that we like and makes sense we get a little attached.

I thought Eric's write up was pretty fair, he disagreed with some things you taught, agreed with other things, if he was a jerk he would have taken offense at being called out and come on here and just flamed away, but true to the person he is, he seemed to isolate the things he disagreed with and gave complimentary review of other things.

As an aside, the reviews of the Packaged Deal here have been pretty positive overall and the general consensus has been that you all banding together like this and adding in the empowerment aspect of the mission is a really good thing for young female athletes so keep up the good work and remind me not to piss you off.