The goal should be synthesis: taking the parts (NECC, Jen S, your experiences) and making a greater whole (better catching DD). I'll be interested to read what you think after the clinic.
Jen Schroeder - The Packaged Deal
- Thread starter Eric F
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Eric,
Before I post, I gotta say...you give me a run for my money with your zeal and passion for your DDs success. While I'm sure we may disagree about this, that or the other thing at some point in our journey I just want to say I have the utmost respect for you as a Dad (and coach?) for the effort you put forth...seriously...great stuff!
My DD1 catches...and DD2 pitches and DD3 at 7 YO is TBD
~~~~~
My team runs pitchers and catchers on Thursdays. We start the whole group with a series of jumps\plyo moves as prescribed by JavaSource...it's a killer 8 minutes...
We then break out pitchers and catchers into separate cages. I take the pitchers and my AC pounds...err I mean works my catchers and DD1 like a rented mule (I'm 12U, DD1 is 14U but practices with us all the time). AC's routine varies week to week but each drill alternates between "technique" and "athleticism." She was an 18U gold catcher\1B and is very familiar with both NECC and JSchro...She does a wonderful job of balancing both ends of the spectrum. She ALWAYS will pause\stop a drill if form goes to hell...bad reps are worse than no reps...
Not just for catchers but for my players and the way I run my practices (and to the benefit of JSchro's approach) - IMO it is EASIER to build a softball player if your first build THE ATHLETE. If I have an athlete - implementing the NECC approach becomes infinitely easier IMO.
I look forward to your review...CP
Before I post, I gotta say...you give me a run for my money with your zeal and passion for your DDs success. While I'm sure we may disagree about this, that or the other thing at some point in our journey I just want to say I have the utmost respect for you as a Dad (and coach?) for the effort you put forth...seriously...great stuff!
My DD1 catches...and DD2 pitches and DD3 at 7 YO is TBD
~~~~~
My team runs pitchers and catchers on Thursdays. We start the whole group with a series of jumps\plyo moves as prescribed by JavaSource...it's a killer 8 minutes...
We then break out pitchers and catchers into separate cages. I take the pitchers and my AC pounds...err I mean works my catchers and DD1 like a rented mule (I'm 12U, DD1 is 14U but practices with us all the time). AC's routine varies week to week but each drill alternates between "technique" and "athleticism." She was an 18U gold catcher\1B and is very familiar with both NECC and JSchro...She does a wonderful job of balancing both ends of the spectrum. She ALWAYS will pause\stop a drill if form goes to hell...bad reps are worse than no reps...
Not just for catchers but for my players and the way I run my practices (and to the benefit of JSchro's approach) - IMO it is EASIER to build a softball player if your first build THE ATHLETE. If I have an athlete - implementing the NECC approach becomes infinitely easier IMO.
I look forward to your review...CP
Greenmonsters
Wannabe Duck Boat Owner
Wow, I am continually amazed at the depths and extent of your softball ignorance and gender bias.
02Crush
Way past gone
Watching and interested....
Okay, here we go. My impressions of Jen Schroeder's catchers' clinic...
Being that this was a 1-1/2 hour clinic with 20+ students, they really aren't able to get in-depth with some of the details. The clinic was set up with a variety of stations that small groups would cycle through, getting a little bit of instruction from a different coach at each location. There were also a few moments of instruction to the whole group (fundamental blocking position, for example).
There was a good discussion about catchers needing to be the leader/quarterback on the field, which means getting the mask off, stepping up from behind the plate and giving loud, clear instructions to the team. It was noted that this - more than anything else - is what college coaches are looking for in a catcher. Be a leader. Be loud. Command with authority.
There was a LOT of work on fitness and agility drills - lunges, squats, bear-crawls, jumps. I believe that a strong, agile, explosive athlete makes for a good catcher, and this is something that is included in one form or another throughout the entire session. Physically, this was probably the single biggest benefit to the clinic. My DD powered through every exercise and every rep. At the end of the day, she was spent, and is still sore this morning.
The instruction about blocking position was fine - no significant issues there. There are a few details - feet together, elbows spread - that weren't touched on, but I can let that slide because of the short time available to teach a large group.
I agree with Jen's receiving instruction about "firm arm, loose wrist", catching the ball out front, and shifting the body behind the ball. The little bit of receiving work included in the drill rotations included instruction on thumb-up for inside pitches and thumb-down for outside pitches. That stuff was just fine.
Where I started having issues with the instruction is what they didn't reinforce, didn't teach, and a few areas they do reinforce.
There was almost zero instruction about protection of the throwing hand. I heard one of the coaches bark out "remember to protect your throwing hand" during the midst of the drill rotations, but there was never any discussion or direction about how that should be done and where to put it.
The single most detrimental drill I witnessed was a rapid-repetition blocking-move drill where the catcher would follow a line of balls on the ground while dropping into their blocking position at each one, while moving right to left, and then left to right. The object was to go as fast as possible down the line. There was NO instruction or reinforcement on maintaining decent blocking mechanics and keeping their throwing hand in a protected position at any point. For 90% of the students, it was sloppy, floppy, and ugly. Later, during a similar drill with similar sloppiness being displayed, I made the mistake of reminding Maddie to maintain her blocking form (I should have kept my mouth shut, because she was actually doing a decent job - better than most of the girls out there). After the drill rotation was done, I was chastised by Jen, and it was announced to everyone that the drills aren't intended to be about technique, but about speed, and maintaining form didn't matter. That right there was when I got off the JSchro bus. What I witnessed was girls practicing sloppy and hazardous form over and over again, reinforcing bad habits that will come out in the pressure of a game situation. As I have said previously in this thread, I think there is some benefit to low-rep rapid-fire blocking drills, but proper form and techniques MUST be maintained. What I saw in the clinic is not something I would ask catchers to do - ever.
During one session of remarks to the entire group of students, Jen made it clear that she didn't agree with a "runners-on" position (she didn't call it that) or putting the throwing hand behind the mitt. She insisted that it's faster to block from a low and wide position - faster to do everything, I believe she said at one point. There was also a comment about it being too tiring. I found it interesting, however, that during the final drill which required the catcher to spin 180 degrees and leap out to catch a simulated foul ball, EVERY catcher started in a "runners-on" type position. Whether it was a conscious thought or not, every one of those kids knew they were faster not being in a low squat. Although my DD tried her best to follow along with the drills, her ability to block from a "no runners" position was ineffective at best.
I haven't touched on every aspect of what was taught, but these are the things jumping out at me right now.
On the drive home, my DD and I discussed what she experienced, and what her impressions were of the instruction. First of all, she's not getting rid of the "no runners" position with her throwing hand behind the mitt. She clearly understands the logic of why it makes sense, and feels the difference in speed on the field. She had fun doing the rapid-repetition drills, but understands that maintaining proper form is critical. For the most part, we aren't going to make any significant changes to the way she is already playing the game, and the work we do.
While it's not truly fair to compare the 9 hours of instruction included in a 3- day NECC camp with a 1-1/2 hour clinic, I think I got enough sense of Jen's fundamental teaching philosophies. For us, Jen's catchers' clinic is not a do-over. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed it wasn't better.
On a side note, my DD also attended the Packaged Deal clinics on infield and hitting. The infield clinic had some good drills for younger players to build quickness, and was a pretty good experience for my DD. The hitting clinic was pretty close to worthless on most mechanical aspects (IMO, for my DD), with the ONLY redeeming feature being discussion about mental approach and attitude.
Being that this was a 1-1/2 hour clinic with 20+ students, they really aren't able to get in-depth with some of the details. The clinic was set up with a variety of stations that small groups would cycle through, getting a little bit of instruction from a different coach at each location. There were also a few moments of instruction to the whole group (fundamental blocking position, for example).
There was a good discussion about catchers needing to be the leader/quarterback on the field, which means getting the mask off, stepping up from behind the plate and giving loud, clear instructions to the team. It was noted that this - more than anything else - is what college coaches are looking for in a catcher. Be a leader. Be loud. Command with authority.
There was a LOT of work on fitness and agility drills - lunges, squats, bear-crawls, jumps. I believe that a strong, agile, explosive athlete makes for a good catcher, and this is something that is included in one form or another throughout the entire session. Physically, this was probably the single biggest benefit to the clinic. My DD powered through every exercise and every rep. At the end of the day, she was spent, and is still sore this morning.
The instruction about blocking position was fine - no significant issues there. There are a few details - feet together, elbows spread - that weren't touched on, but I can let that slide because of the short time available to teach a large group.
I agree with Jen's receiving instruction about "firm arm, loose wrist", catching the ball out front, and shifting the body behind the ball. The little bit of receiving work included in the drill rotations included instruction on thumb-up for inside pitches and thumb-down for outside pitches. That stuff was just fine.
Where I started having issues with the instruction is what they didn't reinforce, didn't teach, and a few areas they do reinforce.
There was almost zero instruction about protection of the throwing hand. I heard one of the coaches bark out "remember to protect your throwing hand" during the midst of the drill rotations, but there was never any discussion or direction about how that should be done and where to put it.
The single most detrimental drill I witnessed was a rapid-repetition blocking-move drill where the catcher would follow a line of balls on the ground while dropping into their blocking position at each one, while moving right to left, and then left to right. The object was to go as fast as possible down the line. There was NO instruction or reinforcement on maintaining decent blocking mechanics and keeping their throwing hand in a protected position at any point. For 90% of the students, it was sloppy, floppy, and ugly. Later, during a similar drill with similar sloppiness being displayed, I made the mistake of reminding Maddie to maintain her blocking form (I should have kept my mouth shut, because she was actually doing a decent job - better than most of the girls out there). After the drill rotation was done, I was chastised by Jen, and it was announced to everyone that the drills aren't intended to be about technique, but about speed, and maintaining form didn't matter. That right there was when I got off the JSchro bus. What I witnessed was girls practicing sloppy and hazardous form over and over again, reinforcing bad habits that will come out in the pressure of a game situation. As I have said previously in this thread, I think there is some benefit to low-rep rapid-fire blocking drills, but proper form and techniques MUST be maintained. What I saw in the clinic is not something I would ask catchers to do - ever.
During one session of remarks to the entire group of students, Jen made it clear that she didn't agree with a "runners-on" position (she didn't call it that) or putting the throwing hand behind the mitt. She insisted that it's faster to block from a low and wide position - faster to do everything, I believe she said at one point. There was also a comment about it being too tiring. I found it interesting, however, that during the final drill which required the catcher to spin 180 degrees and leap out to catch a simulated foul ball, EVERY catcher started in a "runners-on" type position. Whether it was a conscious thought or not, every one of those kids knew they were faster not being in a low squat. Although my DD tried her best to follow along with the drills, her ability to block from a "no runners" position was ineffective at best.
I haven't touched on every aspect of what was taught, but these are the things jumping out at me right now.
On the drive home, my DD and I discussed what she experienced, and what her impressions were of the instruction. First of all, she's not getting rid of the "no runners" position with her throwing hand behind the mitt. She clearly understands the logic of why it makes sense, and feels the difference in speed on the field. She had fun doing the rapid-repetition drills, but understands that maintaining proper form is critical. For the most part, we aren't going to make any significant changes to the way she is already playing the game, and the work we do.
While it's not truly fair to compare the 9 hours of instruction included in a 3- day NECC camp with a 1-1/2 hour clinic, I think I got enough sense of Jen's fundamental teaching philosophies. For us, Jen's catchers' clinic is not a do-over. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed it wasn't better.
On a side note, my DD also attended the Packaged Deal clinics on infield and hitting. The infield clinic had some good drills for younger players to build quickness, and was a pretty good experience for my DD. The hitting clinic was pretty close to worthless on most mechanical aspects (IMO, for my DD), with the ONLY redeeming feature being discussion about mental approach and attitude.
Last edited:
- Oct 10, 2011
- 3,117
- 0
Looks like I'll be skipping the one coming to our area. Thanks for the great write up!
- Feb 7, 2013
- 3,188
- 48
Thanks the insight and analysis. Glad I'm having my DS attend the January NECC clinic. Sounds like the better option.
I'm a big believer in getting proper mechanics built into muscle memory before trying to go fast - if you can't do it properly slowly, you will NEVER do it properly under stress in a game situation. NECC's focus on proper mechanics is a VERY important part of creating a great catcher.
