is it truely a 1-7 spin or is more of a ...

[javasource]

Wassup, Yaw?

Ok... after a beautiful 38-degree day in Western, NY... I was able to get in a few throws before the sun went down.

JJ told me I was throwing bullets... so I deliver to you JJ, a 45-degree yaw 12-6 drop.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3K8MKbU.gif">

I played around with a peel action... as I wanted to actually try BM's earlier cue of thumb to the left... and warming up with a peel-type toss seemed helpful to me.

Not sure I get why a 2-seam 12-6 would move in... but I played around with that, too. Didn't see any results... so I moved attention to what BM mentioned... trying to get that thumb cue working. Threw five... and they all had a little wobble... but this last one cut in and surprised my DD a little.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/06ompOP.gif">

She asked to see a curve behind it... it was a nice little combo... sorta fat... but it motivated her to work on the in-cut for about an hour:

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/xuy5acq.gif">

Can't wait to see that video, BM. Thanks!

 

[dmaeganx2]

Java Your first gif in the post is the spin I get When I throw to my DD Its the only spin I get right now have not really played with other pitches

 

[JJsqueeze]

Not sure I get why a 2-seam 12-6 would move in... but I played around with that, too. Didn't see any results... so I moved attention to what BM mentioned... trying to get that thumb cue working. Threw five... and they all had a little wobble... but this last one cut in and surprised my DD a little. Thanks!

Its funny you say this because the pitch you show that broke looks like the two seam RB and I described. the straight arrow shows where the wind is roughly hitting the ball (big smooth surface) and the crookedy arrow is roughly the spin (looks like this ball is taped roughly across two seams)

 

[Perfect Circle]

Yep... has it taped right !!!

 

[javasource]

Its funny you say this because the pitch you show that broke looks like the two seam RB and I described. the straight arrow shows where the wind is roughly hitting the ball (big smooth surface) and the crookedy arrow is roughly the spin (looks like this ball is taped roughly across two seams)

JJ... come on, man.

You said this:

...if you change that so that the pitch is gripped as a two seam pitch with the same rotation then it will break in...

I read that literally... in that a 12-6 spin will break in... IF... you use a 2-seam grip. I don't agree because that's not logical to me... and because I said, 'screw it' and tried... not because I'm hiding the truth.

I tested your theory... in an effort to learn... and all I saw was a 2-seam fastball with 12-6 spin... like you said. They didn't move sideways... just down. I did notice that the spin wasn't always as tight... but I think that's what makes them running fastballs, and not in-cuts.

In an effort to be completely open with everyone... Here was my throwing agenda yesterday:

I had a total of 5 balls... [3] were 4-seam striped, [2] were 2-seamed striped.

I threw a total of 26 pitches... all of them videotaped.

I started by throwing 10 of your 2-seam, 45 yaw, 12-6's. All of these were 2-seam taped (2 balls). None of them broke in, all of them broke down.

I then switched to taped 4 seam balls, making sure to get my thumb forward a bit so they were all 45 or under. Threw five I/R frenchman's kiss type I/R.. and then 5 peel-type I/R. All of them were 45 yaw or under, did not break in, broke down.

I then threw 1 pitch with each of the 5 balls I had with me... all using BM's thumb cues... in an effort to throw an in-cut. (gripped slightly to the left with the thumb, and thought about getting my thumb to the left of center on release).

The first was with a 4-seam... and a disaster. May have killed a bird.

The next two were with the remaining 4 seams. Both of them had a nice tailing action in and down. Both were 5-11 (pitchers view)... albeit a bit wobbly. The last two balls were taped across 2-seams, same movement, both 5-11. You've seen and commented on one of them. That didn't run 5-11 because I just threw a 2-seam grip... I already tried that 10 times.

Lastly, I threw 1 curve at my DD's request. You've seen that one, too.

--end java throwing, begin java DD throwing--

I did not try Jake's finger pressure... as I didn't see Riseball's picture until after my throwing experiment. I have always tried this method... with index finger pressure... middle finger pressure, split fingers, etc. I could get the split to dive pretty good, and every once in awhile, finger-pressured 2 seamers would dance all over the place. In fact... they did so much at times that this has been the way I've always tried to teach the pitch. Unfortunately, they weren't consistent for me, have been really difficult to teach, and locating an inside breaking pitch is pretty important for me (and the screwball is my least favorite pitch).

Not saying it doesn't work either... in fact, I've flat out asked for, 'show me/tell me how'.

I'm not trying to pull one over on you , buddy... trying to help people learn, including myself.

These gifs are killing my bandwidth allowance... but as you seem to be in doubt... I'll post some smaller gifs. These were shot at 120fps and full gifs get pretty big for bandwidth starved people like me... even after lowering the dither, upping the lossy, and downsizing the res.

Here's 1 of 10 of the 2-seam 12-6 axis throws I made... representative of what they all looked like. You could even argue they were more drop curve...

Here's one of the 2 decent 4-seam in-cut attempts... wobbly but more than 2/3 of the frames were 1/7ish... you've now seen half of the decent in-cut throws I made.

So... if you've advice, put it up and I'll try it... like I did. Better yet... try it, film it, post it, and share the description of what you are doing in the vid.

This is the one pitch I've always struggled with regarding consistency... so I'm willing to take/try any and all pointers...

Best, ~JS

 

[JJsqueeze]

I'm just looking at the video boss. It looks like that ball is taped across two seams, not 4. Terminology gets confusing, that is why I put the still in to give a visual to the pitch I was describing. The other frames weren't as clear. I'm not trying to say you are doing a or b right or wrong, just trying to give a visual to a pitch and give a physical explanation as to why a pitch this this spin might break. This is the same miscommunication that happened with sluggers in that 2 seam thread so maybe I will just video the pitch I am talking about to remove any doubt about what I mean when I describe this particular pitch.

 

[colin]

wish we could get outside!! indoor games tomorrow. youngest vs middle in am

 

[dmaeganx2]

Uhg Java limited broadband data

 

[javasource]

IMO... the ball moves inward because the stripe is 1-7, the majority of the time. I'd like to get it with a tighter spin... but the results of BM's cue was pretty consistent regarding movement (80%). The wild one that got away may have broken in, too... but I lost it in the sun...

I'm curious as to how Jake is applying pressure... and what that actually means to her.... and how you could tell someone else to do it.

JJ... in no way am I agitated... just want you to know that my testing was objective... with a single goal in mind: consistently throw an in-cut, get the yaw under 45, and see what a 2-seam fastball's axis did over a bunch of throws.

What 2-seam thread of Sluggers are you referring to? I'd like to read through that...

D... yeah, it's so bad at times that I view the printable version of these pages...

 

[Perfect Circle]

Here is the 1/7 2Seamer.... Breaking Baby !!! 2 planes