I/R, I just dont get it

[CoachHarley]

So, I have been trying to read and understand all the IR posts here. I just don't get it. No one in my area that I know of is teaching it. I guess my main problem when I read through all the stuff is I don't have medical degree so I get lost with a lot of the terms. I am a diesel mechanic...lol Anyway, I just cant seem to read, understand, and know how to teach my daughter and other pitchers how to use IR.

Here is what I have been working on with them all, after combining what I have been taught from some other coaches in the area and reading on here that I was able to pick up.

Powerful drive of rubber, I try to get them to stride out as far as they are tall, lightly dragging pivot foot. Try to not get them digging trenches, but just enough where you can tell they are dragging.
front foot at about 45* when it lands, not pointing towards 3rd
big, loose arm circle with ball facing up at top of circle
elbow gets pulled down into their side, forcing forearm to whip around at bottom of circle
tight circle throughout
finish tall and balanced (my DD needs to work on this, she still bends at the waist a little)

My DD has been doing pretty well, she is 10 and according to our little cheapo Skillz radar hits 43-45 mph pretty consistently in the back yard. Never used a real radar in a game. She is pretty consistent with strikes also. She is moving up to 12u TB (played and pitched 12u rec this past season) at the end of the TB season and I just want to make sure I am not holding her back. One of the pitching coaches in the area uses a "Just throw strikes approach" where he uses their natural arm motion and just teaches from there. Doesn't really teach IR or HE.

 

[Classof2020]

Don't feel bad Harley I was lurking around and reading for 6 months before it all started to sink in. I got very confused by the different terms that different people were using - I still don't know after 2+ years what "hand inside the ball" is supposed to mean HAHA. Different terms make sense to different people.

But from what you are writing down it sounds like you are really on the right track. But if you are watching the video examples, and seeing the motion that BM is teaching in his I/R threads you are getting the foundation. Keeping the ball on top as much as possible down the back side of the circle is your main cue that you are looking for right now instead of the popular other way around. Then the posture and firm front side are your next two best friends.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Don't get lost in the forest, understand this:

1. Hold your pitching arm behind you with the palm facing the sky. Your arm should be level or at the 9:00 position in the circle.
2. Let your arm drop (relax all of the muscles) and let the arm fall forward. Notice that the natural finish of the hand is palm down.

Notice that the humerus and forearm (your arm) rotated towards your body (Internal Rotation).

This is the natural pitching motion (vs a forced pitching motion that promotes a palm up finish which you have to force (push) because it is not natural).

Understand this foundation and you are well on your way. Run away from anyone that advocates otherwise.

 

[CoachHarley]

Well, guess I was better off than I though, cause I have them Palm up at 9 o clock and have noticed that they are all finishing palm down like you said naturally. It wasn't something I was pushing for or against cause like I said, they were just doing it naturally. Sweet!

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Well, guess I was better off than I though, cause I have them Palm up at 9 o clock and have noticed that they are all finishing palm down like you said naturally. It wasn't something I was pushing for or against cause like I said, they were just doing it naturally. Sweet!

Some instructors say this is a no-teach and just let it occur naturally. You will notice in the Hillhouse videos it isn't referenced directly one way or another. The problem you run into is when someone is advocating something different (pushing).

If I were a pitching coach I would definitely make my students aware of whipping vs pushing. You have to get that foundation built...

See Javasouce's guide for the rest.

 

[mann]

So, I have been trying to read and understand all the IR posts here. I just don't get it. No one in my area that I know of is teaching it. I guess my main problem when I read through all the stuff is I don't have medical degree so I get lost with a lot of the terms. I am a diesel mechanic...lol Anyway, I just cant seem to read, understand, and know how to teach my daughter and other pitchers how to use IR.

Here is what I have been working on with them all, after combining what I have been taught from some other coaches in the area and reading on here that I was able to pick up.

Powerful drive of rubber, I try to get them to stride out as far as they are tall, lightly dragging pivot foot. Try to not get them digging trenches, but just enough where you can tell they are dragging.
front foot at about 45* when it lands, not pointing towards 3rd
big, loose arm circle with ball facing up at top of circle
elbow gets pulled down into their side, forcing forearm to whip around at bottom of circle
tight circle throughout
finish tall and balanced (my DD needs to work on this, she still bends at the waist a little)

My DD has been doing pretty well, she is 10 and according to our little cheapo Skillz radar hits 43-45 mph pretty consistently in the back yard. Never used a real radar in a game. She is pretty consistent with strikes also. She is moving up to 12u TB (played and pitched 12u rec this past season) at the end of the TB season and I just want to make sure I am not holding her back. One of the pitching coaches in the area uses a "Just throw strikes approach" where he uses their natural arm motion and just teaches from there. Doesn't really teach IR or HE.

This is very simple coach. very simple. IR is throwing. this is how I taught myself in about five minutes.
Throw over hand. throw three quarters. throw side arm. throw almost submarine(3/4 under). throw submarine. throw underhand with brush interface(elbow hitting side).
Throw, not push.

I can throw 50 with no drive at all, just statue of liberty(12 oclock) ball up pull down.

 

[sluggers]

1) "IR" means simply "Internal Rotation".

"Internal rotation" means rotating something toward the middle of the body.

When arm, leg, shoulder, etc. is moved toward the middle of the body while the body stays stationary, there is "internal rotation". So, if you are facing home plate, take your hand and point it at 3B, and then rotate the arm until it faces home plate, you "internally rotated" your arm.

2) We are a little sloppy using term "IR". IR can refer to (a) the entire pitching motion or (b) specifically the rotation of the forearm. The better approach is to use "IR" for the entire pitching motion and "pronation" for the rotation of the forearm.

3) IR and forearm pronation are used in almost all throwing motions where speed is a factor--baseball, football, javelin, shot put, etc.

4) There is nothing "natural" about throwing a ball underhanded at 60+ mph. All high level pitchers use IR and forearm pronation.

 

[corlay]

my interpretation is:
I/R=humerus (bicep)
Pronation=forearm

all underhand pitching motions utilize some degree of "I/R"
the I/R we speak of here is the delay of humerus internal rotation,
until just before the release phase of the pitch. Delayed I/R is exhibited in a slight bend in the elbow and a palm-up postition at 9:00.

Properly coupling/sequencing Humerus (bicep) I/R with Forearm pronation into release produces "arm whip"

there isnt much "I/R" applies to beyond that.

This simplistic definition makes it sound easy to learn and/or teach, but I can assure you that for most, it is not. ("If it were easy, everybody would do it")

"Drive Mechanics", "Brush Interference", "Front side resistance", etc are all additionally important things to teach, but are (mostly) independent of "I/R". This is why I/R may be learned through stationary back-chaining; which effectively isolates the I/R sequence.

 

[Rocketech1]

So, I have been trying to read and understand all the IR posts here. I just don't get it. No one in my area that I know of is teaching it. I guess my main problem when I read through all the stuff is I don't have medical degree so I get lost with a lot of the terms. I am a diesel mechanic...lol Anyway, I just cant seem to read, understand, and know how to teach my daughter and other pitchers how to use IR.

Here is what I have been working on with them all, after combining what I have been taught from some other coaches in the area and reading on here that I was able to pick up.

Powerful drive of rubber, I try to get them to stride out as far as they are tall, lightly dragging pivot foot. Try to not get them digging trenches, but just enough where you can tell they are dragging.
front foot at about 45* when it lands, not pointing towards 3rd
big, loose arm circle with ball facing CATCHER at top of circle. At 9:00 the palm is to the sky
elbow gets pulled down into their side, forcing forearm to whip around at bottom of circle
tight circle throughout
finish tall and balanced (my DD needs to work on this, she still bends at the waist a little)

My DD has been doing pretty well, she is 10 and according to our little cheapo Skillz radar hits 43-45 mph pretty consistently in the back yard. Never used a real radar in a game. She is pretty consistent with strikes also. She is moving up to 12u TB (played and pitched 12u rec this past season) at the end of the TB season and I just want to make sure I am not holding her back. One of the pitching coaches in the area uses a "Just throw strikes approach" where he uses their natural arm motion and just teaches from there. Doesn't really teach IR or HE.

See bold above for correction.

Regarding a pitching coach that says "just throw strikes", I would stay away from him. 12U travel ball can be very competitive and with that approach to pitching, she will get hit hard. It's critical that pitchers learn to have command of their pitches. This is one way they protect themselves in the circle, but pitching to the corners and mixing up their pitches. As a first year, 12U pitcher throwing 45mph, sounds like your DD is right on track. She should have great command of her fastball and also change-up. Once she has "mastered" those two pitches, work on a movement pitch (maybe drop or screwball because the mechanics are probably very similar to "fast ball".). The curve and rise ball are harder to learn plus for the rise to be effective, you need 50+ speed.

Back to IR, if you practice BM's "IR in the Classroom" drills, you should be able to understand IR immediately.

The light bulb moment for me was this simple drill: hold your right arm straight out from your body, palm up to the sky. Now, rotate your hand 180 degrees so the palm is now facing the floor and then back to palm up. Do this fast 4 or 5 times, and the hand will "blur". BM argues this is the fastest action in the body. All IR pitchers use this action to generate velocity and spin to the pitch. HE mechanics "kill" this action because HE tries to ONLY use the bend in the elbow to generate speed and spin which severely limits the whipping action.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Regarding a pitching coach that says "just throw strikes", I would stay away from him.

I would stay away from any COACH who spouts, "Just throw strikes!" It's especially silly to hear a pitching coach say that.