High vs Low Catching Stance Question

[Eric F]

Yup. Garbage.

I watch catcher after catcher in NCAA D1 games using the same stances that I see used by MLB'ers, and the same stances I teach the young girls I work with. There are style variations, but the core techniques remain the same.

Just because you've been doing things the same way for decades doesn't mean it's right. Keep learning, keep evolving, keep looking for a better way to get the job done. As good as NECC is with what they teach, they continue to evolve their techniques.

 

[Delayed_steal]

Here is a post that I read in another forum. Thoughts?

"I wrote a article on this subject a few months ago, I was trying to make a point. I dont think many belived me so I will write again on the subject of the difference between catcher in baseball and softball, some belive there is no difference, but I have a news for those, There is a huge difference. Baseball catcher can set up high because the ball come in high and breaks down. In fast pitch softball the ball comes in flat about the knees so the catcher must set up low to the ground so to catch drop ball or low fast ball also where she can block the ball up that hits the dirt. If she sets up high , not only she cant block a ball she also blocks the view of home plate from the umpire.[ I have been told this by many unpires]. If the uimpire can not see the ball, its a ball no mater if it is a strike. A baseball catcher sets up futher behind home plate so he can set up high. the softball catcher must be low, be still, and be quick. when a softball catcher sets up base ball style and at a angle, she has a very hard time catch a screw ball that breaks hard a quick, I have seen lots of stolen bases because the catcher can not get to that pitch. I could talk on this subject for days. Another note for those that think there is no difference. Watch college softball and see how many basball type catcher you see.. I have watch college ball for years. I have yet to see a baseball type catcher behind home plate. They all are low, still and quick. I also know several college coaches, they tell me if a girl is sitting up to high, they walk off. I have been around this sport for about 50 years and trained catcher for about 21 years. Every catcher i have work with has gone on to college if she has wanted to. I do not claim to be the best but by just being involved for so many years I learned this years ago. [ I am done venting]"

Why is this garbage??? My daughter has been taking lesson from a former Olympic, Team USA and 4 Year D1 catcher. She does not teach the "up position" for her catchers. Her reasons are those reasons listed in this post. If the pitcher throws a ball in the dirt the catcher needs to be able to get down and block the ball. When they are in the up position it is only that much further they have to get down. It seems that if a catcher needs to make a throw to any base and they have to be in the up position it might be because they don't have the speed or athleticism to be quick enough to make it from the regular low position. I watch some college softball and rarely if not never see these catchers in the "up position." If you are playing a team who puts a lot of balls in play then your catcher will be in the up position more often and will tire her legs out much quicker. I know and understand there are 100 ways to do one thing and everyone has their own beliefs. I just know what my daughter is taught and he told some of her coaches to not ask her to do it another way. She has not learned it and is much faster From the regular position. They have all been respectful at honoring it and have not tried to change anything because she takes care of business the way she has been taught. Thoughts???

 

[Eric F]

Why is this garbage??? My daughter has been taking lesson from a former Olympic, Team USA and 4 Year D1 catcher. She does not teach the "up position" for her catchers. Her reasons are those reasons listed in this post. If the pitcher throws a ball in the dirt the catcher needs to be able to get down and block the ball. When they are in the up position it is only that much further they have to get down. It seems that if a catcher needs to make a throw to any base and they have to be in the up position it might be because they don't have the speed or athleticism to be quick enough to make it from the regular low position. I watch some college softball and rarely if not never see these catchers in the "up position." If you are playing a team who puts a lot of balls in play then your catcher will be in the up position more often and will tire her legs out much quicker. I know and understand there are 100 ways to do one thing and everyone has their own beliefs. I just know what my daughter is taught and he told some of her coaches to not ask her to do it another way. She has not learned it and is much faster From the regular position. They have all been respectful at honoring it and have not tried to change anything because she takes care of business the way she has been taught. Thoughts???

To block from a low position ("no runners"), the butt must come up before the knees go down. From a high position ("runners on"), the only move is down. As for throwing, why not give yourself every advantage by being closer to the throwing position? If it gives the runner an extra part of a step closer to the base to get up from a low position, you're giving up an advantage you could keep for yourself.

If what your DD is being taught works for her, great. I will always cheer on an effective catcher.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Why is this garbage??? My daughter has been taking lesson from a former Olympic, Team USA and 4 Year D1 catcher. She does not teach the "up position" for her catchers. Her reasons are those reasons listed in this post. If the pitcher throws a ball in the dirt the catcher needs to be able to get down and block the ball. When they are in the up position it is only that much further they have to get down. It seems that if a catcher needs to make a throw to any base and they have to be in the up position it might be because they don't have the speed or athleticism to be quick enough to make it from the regular low position. I watch some college softball and rarely if not never see these catchers in the "up position." If you are playing a team who puts a lot of balls in play then your catcher will be in the up position more often and will tire her legs out much quicker. I know and understand there are 100 ways to do one thing and everyone has their own beliefs. I just know what my daughter is taught and he told some of her coaches to not ask her to do it another way. She has not learned it and is much faster From the regular position. They have all been respectful at honoring it and have not tried to change anything because she takes care of business the way she has been taught. Thoughts???

Its great that your DD is getting quality catcher training. I'll be a little more blunt than Eric - as described in your OP, your DD's catching coach, regardless of pedigree or accomplishment, appears to be perpetuating common fallacies along the same lines that the FP swing is different than a high-level BB swing.

Have you seen video of the runners on stance (ROS) taught by NECC (and Chaz at ACC)? With this stance "up" only means that the thighs are parallel to ground - it does not mean a straight back, which indeed can make it difficult for an umpire to see the plate. Watch slow mo video and you will see that if you start low, you must go up before you can go down to block. Yes, the ROS stance is more tiring, but if one of ACC's young catchers can do a wall sit for 40 minutes, a well-trained and conditioned catcher should have absolutely no stamina issues. IMO, the perception that there are significant differences between FP and BB catching does not match the reality observable from video clips.

I'm not putting your DD's coach in this category as I don't know what s/he actually teaches, but the truth is that some former elite players, even MLBers, are among the worst instructors because they don't understand what they themselves actually did, how they did it, why they did it, can be reluctant to consider the pros and cons of potential alternatives, or are just ineffective communicators/teachers.

If your DD is serious about catching, you should spend $40 and purchase a copy of NECC's 2.5 hour long Coaches Guide to Training Catchers DVD which explains what, how, and why they train catchers the way they do. If you don't think its useful, I'll pay you $50 to send it to me to replace my copy which is off somewhere being used by catcher number 20 something plus. IME and IMO, NECC is producing 12-14 year old catchers with mechanics that put the majority of women's D1 catchers and even some MLB catchers to shame.