He's making her slap her thigh.

[nanotech14]

So let's say it's nit bad. but why teach a thigh slap to someone who is not currently dong it? What's the benefit?

I can go along with this, if it isn't broken, why fix it.

 

[nanotech14]

I love how some of you think that slapping the glove helps the batters timing. I find that to be a some what foolish notion. My dd slaps her glove, wasn't something she was taught, because Hillhouse didn't teach her that at all, but she still does it anyways. Why change her because she is doing it naturally? I would rather us spend her time getting better spin on the ball and hitting her locations and working on that darn rise ball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So let's say it's nit bad. but why teach a thigh slap to someone who is not currently dong it? What's the benefit?

For someone that isn't fully adducting it can be a goal that more fully completes the adduction process. To be clear ... the glove slap is not necessary with full adduction, but it certainly can be a result and it isn't an issue imo.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The only reason that girls that I work with do it, is because they have seen someone else do it. I want the glove up and the elbow moving into the rib cage. Not unlike overhand throw. This is one reason that I emphasize overhand throw so much. We work on Over and Unders and the glove hand remains the same, not different.

I have parents tell me "I think I saw one of your pitchers, last night." They can tell which pitchers are mine. Because, they load and pitch. There is no up over the head or swing back. I guess there is no need to come to me, if the girl ignores what I teach. Unknowing coaches do try to get them to do a pre-motion, though.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

This is not correct. The slap comes slightly after the 'release' ... and a good hitter times the pitcher's movement such that they are in their swing process by the time the pitcher releases the ball. Hearing an audible of the glove slap is too late to be helpful.

Don't tell me, tell Hillhouse: " And third, by slapping yourself, you're giving the batter another timing mechanism as to when to start their swing. So, why help the batter?"

Bill Hillhouse: House of Pitching Softball Academy

Hearing an audible of the glove slap is too late to be helpful.

Welcome any data that would support that position.

Thanks to Noontime's valuable contribution at BBD, we know that in baseball that the swing sequence of good hitters has their COM moving forward at the release of the pitch. I performed the same analysis on softball. The COM moves forward at, or slightly ahead, of ball release. The sound of the slap is too late. Good hitters embrace the holy grail of slow and early ... and they do so to be on time relative to ball release.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The only reason that girls that I work with do it, is because they have seen someone else do it. I want the glove up and the elbow moving into the rib cage. Not unlike overhand throw. This is one reason that I emphasize overhand throw so much. We work on Over and Unders and the glove hand remains the same, not different.

I have parents tell me "I think I saw one of your pitchers, last night." They can tell which pitchers are mine. Because, they load and pitch. There is no up over the head or swing back. I guess there is no need to come to me, if the girl ignores what I teach. Unknowing coaches do try to get them to do a pre-motion, though.

Honestly, if glove slapping sets you off, then consider that you may be the person that is unknowing. Glove slapping occurs for many high-end pitchers.

 

[abbygale]

I thought you can adduct only as fast as the muscles will be able to stop/control the adduction. Something about mother-nature protecting us from ourselves. Don't quote me as I am not completely sure. Anyways, my dd started using the glove to leg stop in order to help brake her adduction process and says that she felt she could adduct/pull down harder with her glove side which then translated to her pulling down harder on her throwing side.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The audible sound of the glove slap certainly didn't impact Cat's performance ..... and she wasn't one of those pitchers that threw with amazing speed.

If a hitter makes the mistake of timing the sound of the glove slap, instead of ball release, then they will find themselves being too late ... and the result is an uncomfortable feeling of "being rushed" during the back-swing process (i.e., act of arriving at 'launch', the drawback as in taking a punch, etc. ... the feel of having to 'rush' your hands back to a loaded launch-like position) ... and once this action is 'rushed', the swing is critically impacted.

As a batter, it is a terrible feel when you find yourself "being rushed".

Time the pitcher to be on time for the 'release', not the glove slap.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

IMO it is important for instructors to understand the absolutes as well as various movement patterns.

When you take the approach of “my way or the highway” with style-related mechanics, then you make life difficult on your students. Your students will play on teams where they will receive ‘instruction’, and if you fight style-related issues then you make it incredibly difficult for your student to excel on their team. Coaches often have choices, and it isn’t uncommon for a coach to favor players that are easier to work with.

Absolutes are another thing. The impact of well-established movement patterns is another thing. At times it pays to contact the coach with the player’s permission and explain what you consider to be absolutes and critical movement patterns in what you have taught the student.

Said differently … some of the instruction that a student receives from their team coaches is benign and if you are good enough then you’ll even find ways to satisfy the coach’s desire while further enhancing your student’s movement patterns.

It isn’t uncommon for a club coach to give “surface instruction”, and you, as the private instructor, can then translate that into more meaningful “under-the-hood instruction”. It can open up areas for further enhancement …. or it can simply allow the student to satisfy their coach’s desires while you re-explain the instruction in a way that does not negatively impact their ability.

In this particular case here … glove slapping is not something in which a well meaning private instructor should toss the kid … IMO anyway.

 

[javasource]

I emphasize overhand throw so much…
There is no up over the head or swing back…
Unknowing coaches do try to get them to do a pre-motion, though...

Amy, perhaps I misread that post... but you don't see the importance in teaching overlapping motions (backswing)? A good overhand throw is marked by a backswing (to which you say you spend a large amount of time on)... or motion in which the ball is traveling rearward as the body comes forward. I see this in good swings, too. It's a sound principle of ballistic motions...

Case in point, try to throw a ball overhand without any rearward movement of the arm as the body moves forward... it's not a pretty thing. So with this in mind, why is it something you exclude in pitching? It seems odd that a focus would be put on one particular throwing motion (overhand lag)... but forbidden with the other (underhand lag).

Here's a quote from a decent read, called: Advanced Analysis of Motor Development, by Kathleen Haywood (Ph. D.), published in 2012 :

From the chapter, Development of Ballistic Skills

Another interesting commonality across these complex projectile skills is that they employ a backswing to place the body segments in position to move forward. In the advanced form of striking, throwing, and kicking, the backswing and forward swing partially overlap, and proximal segments begin to move forward while more distal segments are still moving backward. The advanced form of these movements also involves strong acceleration of the distal segment just milliseconds before contact or release, which yields high distal angular velocity. This acceleration seems to result partially from the inertia of each distal segment against the motion of adjacent proximal segments. The lagging segment stretches the agonist muscles of the distal segment, which may in turn excite reflexes that augment the muscular contractions in the distal segment (Roberts & Metcalfe, 1968). As we will see, lag is one aspect of object projection that develops only gradually over time. It is so important for effective ballistic movement that Southard (2002a, 2002b) used lag as a collective variable in his studies of throwing.

And no... this isn't an over-the-top read... it's a paragraph... and pretty straight-forward, at that. (Added this disclaimer in lieu of comments that may originate from left field).

Anyway... just thought I'd share some thoughts... maybe it will help you or others.

I appreciate how everyone has attempted to keep this a civil discussion! Best, ~JS