He's making her slap her thigh.

[Ken Krause]

This has been a very interesting thread to a novice of pitching. Thanks to all involved.

I'll leave the "slap", or "not to slap" to the experts. I will say that if I'm paying for pitching instructions, a coach isn't going to FORCE a mechanical change to her pitching. If they want to make suggestions, that's completely fine. This mindset of "I don't like it so I'll force them to change it.", is completely ludicrous. It's that God-like personality that too many coaches have.

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying. Are you speaking to the glove slap specifically? If so then yeah, it's not something to worry about one way or the other in my opinion.

If not, then I would say if the coach is FORCING a mechanical change on the pitcher then you didn't do a very good job of vetting that coach in the first place. You should WANT your daughter to learn whatever that coach is teaching. If you want the coach to let her do it the way she wants then you're wasting your time and money on lessons. She already knows how to do what she does.

The first, most important step in learning anything is a willingness to change - if change makes sense.

 

[drc9805]

I'm guessing NorthMS meant if a coach other than the pitching coach is trying to force a change...

 

[NorthMS]

Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying. Are you speaking to the glove slap specifically? If so then yeah, it's not something to worry about one way or the other in my opinion.

If not, then I would say if the coach is FORCING a mechanical change on the pitcher then you didn't do a very good job of vetting that coach in the first place. You should WANT your daughter to learn whatever that coach is teaching. If you want the coach to let her do it the way she wants then you're wasting your time and money on lessons. She already knows how to do what she does.

The first, most important step in learning anything is a willingness to change - if change makes sense.

I meant a team coach changing what a pitching coach teaches. Most don't get to vet the HS coach. You live in "x" district, so you play for "y" school. If my DD's high school coach FORCED her to do something different than the person I've vetted and paid for instructions, I'd be highly ticked off.

After reading my post again, I see where the confusion comes. My apologies. I certainly meant a team coach overruling a PC. Sorry. I certainly want DD's PC to make changes.

 

[Ken Krause]

Gotcha North. Totally agree with that.

 

[6kimages]

This has been a very interesting thread to a novice of pitching. Thanks to all involved.

I'll leave the "slap", or "not to slap" to the experts. I will say that if I'm paying for pitching instructions, a coach isn't going to FORCE a mechanical change to her pitching. If they want to make suggestions, that's completely fine. This mindset of "I don't like it so I'll force them to change it.", is completely ludicrous. It's that God-like personality that too many coaches have.

If your paying for pitching instructions than let them instruct . have not read the whole thread , but as i have saw BH say , there is the "must Do" things and than there are styles .That goes for just about everything ..If a Pitching instructor has a reason for a change , ask for an explination to help you and your child make sense of it,(if understood, it becomes more effective)

 

[SoAZDad]

Hi all,

I've been largely out of the DFP loop for a while because of a couple funerals and other life stuff.

I revisited this thread today after my DD had a pitching lesson last night. She's a RHP. She makes some glove contact but I can't hear it in a game the way you hear a slap from some of the young pitchers. The glove contact the PC wants DD to have is a brush that won't stop any forward momentum of the drive, nor contribute to rotation to her left side.

He said that all the biomechanics guys at all the college coaches conferences he's been to say it's flat out bad mechanics because it reduces power to the plate. Of course nobody has to buy that, but it makes sense to me.

If Cat and other ultra-elite pitchers slap their thigh, it doesn't make it correct. Perhaps they did it so long in their career it is almost impossible to put the glove anywhere else. Cat's near the end of her career and continues to be incredibly effective, so I can see why she doesn't waste time working on it.

I sincerely apologize to any of you that I offended with my comments in this thread. I'll shut up now.

 

[JJsqueeze]

speaking of dead horses....this one was slapped to death instead of beaten.

 

[Softball scholar]

I just read this all again, but I want to make two points:
I am not against slapping the thigh because it helps the hitter. I would still be against it regardless.
I am against it because it has caused injuries
I am against it because grunting and slapping are poor body control, a sloppy technique for several reasons.
When I manage the player, that means being around her for hours, so if you grunt or slap, the rest of us find it distracting, and often or can lead to players conversing, getting sloppy with technique, or grunting themselves. (If I have to tell them to shut up or be precise on something, I am going to tell my pitcher also to do so.)

Or the other team gets riled up and messing with her, which can help them.

Sorry, but both bad habits in pitching are really annoying. Because it is not necessary to do so, then I tell you, you can't pitch for me unless you get rid of that slap. You can pitch for TB, etc. just not for me. But the ones that are high level that have come to my team never had these bad habits.
I doubt you will have any scientific studies on this. Really, make a kid slap her thigh to test theories....I think researchers are looking into more important things. However, they have found grunting a problem in women's tennis.

I totally agree that worst thing about slapping is the injury risk. How can people argue that slapping yourself 10s of thousands of times a year isnt good for the body.

The grunting problem is an interesting dilemma. I see you mentioned womens tennis. Actually some top tennis coaches teach the grunt to get more energy release and intensity into the stroke. It actually improves the stroke, and I dont disagree. This is probably true in fastpitch softball. The problem is that the grunt is so loud that it overbears the feedback sound of the shot which the players opponent uses to judge the shot. It also can be a distraction to the focus of the other player, and also is annoying to the fans. I think most fans have accepted it as a part of the game, and is not as a big deal anymore. Wimbledon tried to enforce the rule against Vika Azarenka 4 or 5 years ago by warning her, but the tour really never gained traction in trying to enforce a rule that this is a distraction.

My DD pitching coach tries to teach her to grunt on the change up to fool the batter. The funny thing is her grunt comes out a little squeak and is actually kind of funny and silly. I guess she's not good at grunting.

 

[cthur]

My daughter slapped her leg up until two weeks ago. We recently went to a pitching camp where the instructor talked about wasting energy and taking away from pitch speed. He was the first instructor to explain why this was not good. He actually gave two reasons. 1. It is an indicator to the batter. 2. It is wasted energy you are taking away from the speed of the pitch. Don't quote me on the exact number, but I think he quoted something like 2 or 3/10ths of 1 MPH. He taught to just tuck the arm by the shoulder or to keep the elbow at a 45 degree angle with the glove open away from the body. I don't know how much this increased my daughter's pitching speed, but overall in the last 2 weeks, she has gained 5 mph due to the adjustments that he made.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

^ Yes. That is what I teach.

Just an update on my student, her lessons are paid for and she hasn't been back. I walked through her dugout the other day and she turned her back to me. I don't think that she has turned 11, yet. I am afraid that her coach has told her she can't come to lessons. We have had a great relationship for 18 months and I have sat and listened to her cry, twice, over losses. I don't get it, but I am sure it wasn't her decision. My relationship with her mom and dad has always been good, too.