FWIW An Observation

[Little Angels Softball]

I'm just trying to understand here and not challenge your reasoning. Are you saying that because of the mask during your evaluation process, since you can't see their eyes if they make an error or bobble the ball, you can't be sure of the reason behind it? Or are you saying that you can't judge their skills adequately simply because they wear a mask. Mask or no mask, I would think that you'd be able to see the head turn. Some more questions for you, how do you feel the masks either enhance or detract from the overall skill level of a player? Have you observed players being more aggressive with them versus not wearing them or the opposite? Again, I'm not challenging your reasoning, just trying to completely understand your POV.

It comes down to the phrase "100% ingrained and natural to the girl" which is what I am looking for in a prospect and what I want the final product to look like when I am coaching a girl. The mask by its very nature robs an objective onlooker of the ability to determine if the skill is "100% ingrained and natural to the girl" because we cannot be sure if she is doing what we want because the mask is protecting her or if she is doing it naturally and because the skill is 100% ingrained.

I have observed many, many players who play quite differently sans the mask. I have also seen girls who are animals with or without a mask on. The issue is I don't know which is which until I've seen them both ways several times in games so I have occasion to observe what they do on hard-hit balls, bad hops, short-hop throws, etc. A girl who wears a mask exclusively in games doesn't offer that opportunity.....again, no judgement, just a lack of the knowledge I'd need to make an informed scouting report.

 

[PA SB Dad]

I just don't buy the argument that the reason girls wear masks are because they are afraid of the ball. Unfortunately this stereotype exists (as seen by LAS "scouting" comments) and is the primary reason you don't see more masks in college.

Hopefully those in the softball community will understand that they have this unfounded bias and won't discriminate against players who choose to wear a mask. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

RT, I am not bashing you and I don't want you to take this personally in anyway. What I bolded above is what I believe to be the crux of why so many parents that are pro-mask are so passionate and vocal about the issue. I get it, you don't want your DD to have to face any bias. You want her to be evaluated strictly and fairly on the merits of her skills, not her appearance. Unfortunately, that is not the world we live in. Every player faces some sort of bias when they are being evaluated for something as selective as a scholarship. Those that have the ability to rise above that and shine through despite the bias are the ones that rise to the top. I think that is what you are seeing with those players now in the top conferences wearing masks. They demonstrated great ability and caught the attention of those coaches - the "wow" factor. Not every kid playing 18U ball is going to get signed, and while it may seem unfair that the odds are already stacked against a player wearing a mask, if they wow the coaches, they will at least be in the hunt.

 

[FP26]

It really all comes down to this:


I am not disputing anyone's safety thoughts, anyone's contention that a girl who uses a mask can be just as good or better than one who doesn't, or anyone's belief that a girl who wears a mask is somehow "stronger of spirit" than one who doesn't. All I am saying is that I cannot tell whether the skills are 100% ingrained and natural to the girl if there is a mask involved. Neither can anyone else.

I have no idea why this is so plain for me to see and why others who believe in the mask cannot see the same thing, regardless of why you want the mask. There is a reason 99% of college girls and not a single pro wears a mask. I didn't make that reason but I am aware of it because I have to deal with folks who also know it, whether they will say it or not.

I am not disputing those thoughts. I am merely asking if you monitor the use of other safety devices as closely as you monitor the use of fielding masks. Let's limit my lengthy post to just the elbow guard. Wearing an elbow guard is a matter of personal choice. I see players at all levels wear them. I see players at all levels without them. Why do you think some choose to wear them? In my opinion, it is because they feel the guard will protect them if they get hit by a pitch. In some cases I believe hitters will use these to their advantage and allow pitches to hit them (or even lean in to get hit on purpose). If they change their mind and choose not to wear the guard (or forget to bring it with them...), will that change their attitude/comfort/aggressiveness in the batter's box? In my opinion, it could. Can I guarantee this? Of course not. But it would provide me a certain degree of "uncertainty"

 

[teammom2]

I've read through these 18 pages and I still have one question. If a player is doing her job on the field, playing fearlessly, playing with heart, playing with guts and determination WHY does it matter if she is playing the way she is with or without the mask. If the goal at the college level (or any level really) is to build players who want to win, I don't see why a piece of wire or plastic is that big of a deal. Who cares if she's scared of the ball without the mask. If she makes the play with the mask--good for her and the team.

Is there a box on the recruiting eval form that says, VOID, she wears a mask?

 

[BobInMadison]

RT, I am not bashing you and I don't want you to take this personally in anyway. What I bolded above is what I believe to be the crux of why so many parents that are pro-mask are so passionate and vocal about the issue. I get it, you don't want your DD to have to face any bias. You want her to be evaluated strictly and fairly on the merits of her skills, not her appearance. Unfortunately, that is not the world we live in. Every player faces some sort of bias when they are being evaluated for something as selective as a scholarship. Those that have the ability to rise above that and shine through despite the bias are the ones that rise to the top. I think that is what you are seeing with those players now in the top conferences wearing masks. They demonstrated great ability and caught the attention of those coaches - the "wow" factor. Not every kid playing 18U ball is going to get signed, and while it may seem unfair that the odds are already stacked against a player wearing a mask, if they wow the coaches, they will at least be in the hunt.

I guess I do need to face facts.

There are some people who will judge my kids based on the color of their skin.
There are some people who will judge DD#3 based on whether or not she wears a facemask.

DD #3 cannot change her ethnicity, but she can choose whether to wear a facemask. At some point in her life, she may have to make the tough choice: to protect herself against possible disfigurement, or advance her softball career.

 

[YOCOACH]

It comes down to the phrase "100% ingrained and natural to the girl" which is what I am looking for in a prospect and what I want the final product to look like when I am coaching a girl. The mask by its very nature robs an objective onlooker of the ability to determine if the skill is "100% ingrained and natural to the girl" because we cannot be sure if she is doing what we want because the mask is protecting her or if she is doing it naturally and because the skill is 100% ingrained.

I have observed many, many players who play quite differently sans the mask. I have also seen girls who are animals with or without a mask on. The issue is I don't know which is which until I've seen them both ways several times in games so I have occasion to observe what they do on hard-hit balls, bad hops, short-hop throws, etc. A girl who wears a mask exclusively in games doesn't offer that opportunity.....again, no judgement, just a lack of the knowledge I'd need to make an informed scouting report.

I get it now. But the question is, if the girls going to wear the mask no matter the level of play whether it be rec, college or NPF, what difference does it make since she would be making the play anyway? Or are you thinking along the lines of she may bow to peer pressure and toss it at some future time so now you really don't know if she will be the same player since you've only observed her with a mask on?

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I am not disputing those thoughts. I am merely asking if you monitor the use of other safety devices as closely as you monitor the use of fielding masks. Let's limit my lengthy post to just the elbow guard. Wearing an elbow guard is a matter of personal choice. I see players at all levels wear them. I see players at all levels without them. Why do you think some choose to wear them? In my opinion, it is because they feel the guard will protect them if they get hit by a pitch. In some cases I believe hitters will use these to their advantage and allow pitches to hit them (or even lean in to get hit on purpose). If they change their mind and choose not to wear the guard (or forget to bring it with them...), will that change their attitude/comfort/aggressiveness in the batter's box? In my opinion, it could. Can I guarantee this? Of course not. But it would provide me a certain degree of "uncertainty"

Those type of things don't concern me nearly as much. There are several reasons to wear them .... some girls like to get hit so they can get on base. I am OK with that. some girls have a swing or a stance that means they are more likely to get hit in a certain spot. I am OK with that.

If I see an elbow guard, my due diligence automatically goes into injury mode: I want to know if she has an injured elbow or an old elbow injury that gives her trouble, either of which would be a red flag. If it is just that she gets hit a lot, then no big deal. A girl who stands in and gets clobbered by a 64 mph fastball just so she can get on base is a pretty tough girl.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I've read through these 18 pages and I still have one question. If a player is doing her job on the field, playing fearlessly, playing with heart, playing with guts and determination WHY does it matter if she is playing the way she is with or without the mask. If the goal at the college level (or any level really) is to build players who want to win, I don't see why a piece of wire or plastic is that big of a deal. Who cares if she's scared of the ball without the mask. If she makes the play with the mask--good for her and the team.

Is there a box on the recruiting eval form that says, VOID, she wears a mask?

We don't know all of those things if the girl is wearing a mask. We can't. That is the crux of it. It may look like she's doing those things, but we can't be sure.

When that bad hop makes a wicked-hard grounder jump up at her face, does she keep her head and eyes right on it because it is 100% ingrained and natural for her to do so and she cannot do it any other way under any amount of pressure or is she able to pull it off because she feels protected (this time) by the mask? I can know about a girl who does this without a mask. I cannot know this about the girl who does.

 

[teammom2]

Yah, I read that in a post above. Still makes zero sense to me.

 

[YOCOACH]

Yah, I read that in a post above. Still makes zero sense to me.

I guess we're both questioning the same thing. If the player is ALWAYS going to play with a mask on no matter what, what difference does it make if her feeling of confidence or her aggressiveness is due to her wearing it or not?