FWIW An Observation

[FP26]

it is most definitely something I include. While the note may not look quite like what you wrote, it would be more of an "incomplete" grade for an infielder whom I've only seen wear a mask in games. There are several things I'm looking for an infielder to do consistently, then a few more I'd look at once those things are established in my mind. The mask takes away my ability to see some of the things that I need to see the girl doing consistently before I'd move her on to the next phase.

Again, it isn't about the reason she's wearing the mask. It is solely about my ability to evaluate her completely and to apply the same criteria to her as I do to other girls before moving them on in the process. I am a former infielder and I am a huge stickler for head position and eyes when I am both teaching infield and when I'm scouting prospects because I believe about 80-90% of all fielding errors occur due to someone turning their head too soon, moving it "out of the way" on a tricky hop or someone averting their eyes (usually to find the runner or their throwing target) an instant before they have the ball. I want these things to be 100% ingrained and natural for the girl and I simply cannot grade any of those things honestly if a girl is wearing a mask.

You make some valid points, and I will not disagree with much of this. And to be honest, it is a concern of mine when/if my DD ever decides to remove the mask. Once that time comes, one of the first things I will look for is her "comfort level" (for lack of a better term) when fielding. I played strictly at 3b my entire little league, teener league, high shool, legion ball, and fastpitch softball career, so I too stress many of the things that you stress. However, it seems that much of your argument is based on the assumption that the player will either choose to stop wearing the mask or forget to bring it to a game. Provided she has the mask and is wearing it, couldn't you assume reasonably that her skill level will remain the same?

Likewise, do you make similar notes concerning hitters that wear elbow guards, ankle guards, face masks on their helmets, etc. when hitting? These items are also produced as safety devices, but it is my belief that the hitter gains a sense of confidence when wearing them. If a hitter forgets to bring her elbow guard to a game, will she be as aggressive when hitting an inside pitch? Will she be as likely to allow a tight pitch to hit her. Or will there be a sense of doubt in her mind that "it's gonna hurt!!"? All high schools in my local area still utilize batting helmets with face masks, but many of the colleges do not. Will that have any effect on the hitter's confidence at the plate? Do you make similar notes about knee braces or ankle braces? If someone is healing from an ACL injury (as an example), not only does the brace provide support to the injured area, but it also gives the player a sense of insurance that the knee will not blow out again. Is she decides to take that knee brace off, will she be as confident of a player? I guess I am having trouble understanding how a fielding mask is any more or less telling of a player's ability than any of these other items...

 

[YOCOACH]

it is most definitely something I include. While the note may not look quite like what you wrote, it would be more of an "incomplete" grade for an infielder whom I've only seen wear a mask in games. There are several things I'm looking for an infielder to do consistently, then a few more I'd look at once those things are established in my mind. The mask takes away my ability to see some of the things that I need to see the girl doing consistently before I'd move her on to the next phase.

Again, it isn't about the reason she's wearing the mask. It is solely about my ability to evaluate her completely and to apply the same criteria to her as I do to other girls before moving them on in the process. I am a former infielder and I am a huge stickler for head position and eyes when I am both teaching infield and when I'm scouting prospects because I believe about 80-90% of all fielding errors occur due to someone turning their head too soon, moving it "out of the way" on a tricky hop or someone averting their eyes (usually to find the runner or their throwing target) an instant before they have the ball. I want these things to be 100% ingrained and natural for the girl and I simply cannot grade any of those things honestly if a girl is wearing a mask.

Sorry LAS. I don't buy it. You can certainly judge a girls skills easily enough whether she wears a mask or not. I don't believe an "incomplete" grading of the skills simply because she wears a mask can even be logically entertained. All I have read from your posts are "the uncertainty" factor. There is no uncertainty that I can see or read about. She either has the skills, mask or no mask, or she doesn't. Unless a coach tells them 'it's my way or the highway take it off and don't play with it on,' I would bet on the girl playing with it on. Even in college, no coach is going to say that because they open themselves up to all kinds of civil lawsuits. To paraphrase another post, If I'm a coach that has x number of athletic scholarships at $200k apiece, I wouldn't care whether the girls I offer them to wear a mask or not. The only thing I care about is finding the best athletes/players at the positions I need to fill so that I can win and keep my job for the next year. If for some reason that there were two players in equal skill level for a position, say 3rd base for example, and one wore a mask and the other didn't, I would probably choose the one with the mask for having more common sense or maybe having a good sense of safety might be a better way to put it.

Working in the construction industry, there are numerous ways to get injured or even killed on a daily basis. Should we not try to mitigate these circumstances so that we can continue to work and earn a living? Should there be a stigma attached to those of us that want to work safely and use the appropriate PPE? In college, playing softball is a job since many players are getting paid via scholarship to be there. Why should the players be judged or have a stigma attached to them if they want to "work" their job safely? I'm sorry, I just don't understand the reasoning.

So I guess we'll politely just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[BobInMadison]

I honestly have a great deal of trouble understanding the attitude of "I can't evaluate a player with a mask."

Perhaps my background comes into play.

Back in the 20th century, I was a scientist. Sometimes I worked in labs, sometimes research in graduate school, sometimes I was a faculty member who taught labs.

The number one thing when I taught labs, 100% ingrained, was safety first. I had a reputation of being completely anal about safety.

That meant, every one of my students had to have protective eye gear on 100% of the time.

That meant, I took students out of the lab and to the health center for even the most minor of cuts. A lot of the pre-meds were scared they would be marked down for not finishing the labs, and lose points. So, I made it clear my policy was no penalty for not finishing a lab due to injury, as long as the injury is reported. I would also take of 40% of the grade for students who did not report an injury, no matter how minor.

That attitude went a LOT higher than me. It would've been career suicide for me to allow safety violations. At one point a college in NYC where I taught were getting a bit lax in lab safety, and a student had to be taken to the hospital. The FDNY came down like the Hammer of Thor on them, and forced every lab instructor in every college in NYC to be certified by the FDNY. (Having the certification made it easier for me to get teaching jobs afterwards).

There was not one time when I said I could not judge a student because she was wearing safety goggles. I mean, how do I know how she would react if she forgot her goggles and had to perform a lab without them? Maybe she'd be SKEEEEERED!

Maybe I was a wuss for being so anal about safety. Maybe the FDNY firemen were wussies for emphasizing safety. I would suggest you complain to then, but it might be hard to track down the firemen who were being so anal about safety back in the 1990s. A lot of them died in the line of duty.

 

[PA SB Dad]

do you withhold judgment on girls who you have only seen play with a fielding glove on? I mean what might happen if she forgets her glove?

We actually have our girls throw barehanded to each other in practice as well do many throwing drills without gloves. You can tell IMMEDIATELY who is afraid of the ball and who is not, with or without a mask. In my limited sample size (12U and 14U), those who wear masks are generally more afraid of the ball. Try this in your own practice. I would be curious to see what observations others have.

 

[Rocketech1]

I just don't buy the argument that the reason girls wear masks are because they are afraid of the ball. Unfortunately this stereotype exists (as seen by LAS "scouting" comments) and is the primary reason you don't see more masks in college.

Hopefully those in the softball community will understand that they have this unfounded bias and won't discriminate against players who choose to wear a mask. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

 

[YOCOACH]

We actually have our girls throw barehanded to each other in practice as well do many throwing drills without gloves. You can tell IMMEDIATELY who is afraid of the ball and who is not, with or without a mask. In my limited sample size (12U and 14U), those who wear masks are generally more afraid of the ball. Try this in your own practice. I would be curious to see what observations others have.

Just my observations as a coach. At the younger ages 12U/14U rec what I have seen coincides with you. However, at the TB levels, I can't say this is true in my area. IME the ones with the masks are more prone to be the most aggressive on the field when it comes to hard hit balls at/around them or hard throws to them. I would say that as the girls get more experience, increase their skill levels and become more comfortable with the speed of the game, the less afraid they are. This is true whether they wear a mask or not. However there is a vast difference in game/practice experience between the TB players and the rec players in our area. I still see rec ballers here that are afraid of the ball, mask or not even through HS ages.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

You make some valid points, and I will not disagree with much of this. And to be honest, it is a concern of mine when/if my DD ever decides to remove the mask. Once that time comes, one of the first things I will look for is her "comfort level" (for lack of a better term) when fielding. I played strictly at 3b my entire little league, teener league, high shool, legion ball, and fastpitch softball career, so I too stress many of the things that you stress. However, it seems that much of your argument is based on the assumption that the player will either choose to stop wearing the mask or forget to bring it to a game. Provided she has the mask and is wearing it, couldn't you assume reasonably that her skill level will remain the same?

Likewise, do you make similar notes concerning hitters that wear elbow guards, ankle guards, face masks on their helmets, etc. when hitting? These items are also produced as safety devices, but it is my belief that the hitter gains a sense of confidence when wearing them. If a hitter forgets to bring her elbow guard to a game, will she be as aggressive when hitting an inside pitch? Will she be as likely to allow a tight pitch to hit her. Or will there be a sense of doubt in her mind that "it's gonna hurt!!"? All high schools in my local area still utilize batting helmets with face masks, but many of the colleges do not. Will that have any effect on the hitter's confidence at the plate? Do you make similar notes about knee braces or ankle braces? If someone is healing from an ACL injury (as an example), not only does the brace provide support to the injured area, but it also gives the player a sense of insurance that the knee will not blow out again. Is she decides to take that knee brace off, will she be as confident of a player? I guess I am having trouble understanding how a fielding mask is any more or less telling of a player's ability than any of these other items...

It really all comes down to this:

Again, it isn't about the reason she's wearing the mask. It is solely about my ability to evaluate her completely and to apply the same criteria to her as I do to other girls before moving them on in the process. I am a former infielder and I am a huge stickler for head position and eyes when I am both teaching infield and when I'm scouting prospects because I believe about 80-90% of all fielding errors occur due to someone turning their head too soon, moving it "out of the way" on a tricky hop or someone averting their eyes (usually to find the runner or their throwing target) an instant before they have the ball. I want these things to be 100% ingrained and natural for the girl and I simply cannot grade any of those things honestly if a girl is wearing a mask.

I am not disputing anyone's safety thoughts, anyone's contention that a girl who uses a mask can be just as good or better than one who doesn't, or anyone's belief that a girl who wears a mask is somehow "stronger of spirit" than one who doesn't. All I am saying is that I cannot tell whether the skills are 100% ingrained and natural to the girl if there is a mask involved. Neither can anyone else.

I have no idea why this is so plain for me to see and why others who believe in the mask cannot see the same thing, regardless of why you want the mask. There is a reason 99% of college girls and not a single pro wears a mask. I didn't make that reason but I am aware of it because I have to deal with folks who also know it, whether they will say it or not.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I just don't buy the argument that the reason girls wear masks are because they are afraid of the ball. Unfortunately this stereotype exists (as seen by LAS "scouting" comments) and is the primary reason you don't see more masks in college.

Hopefully those in the softball community will understand that they have this unfounded bias and won't discriminate against players who choose to wear a mask. I'll keep my fingers crossed....

Again, I didn't say that girls wear masks because they are afraid of the ball. I said that I cannot tell if a girl is afraid of the ball if she is wearing a mask. There is no unfounded bias involved there .... it is fact.

 

[YOCOACH]

It really all comes down to this:


I am not disputing anyone's safety thoughts, anyone's contention that a girl who uses a mask can be just as good or better than one who doesn't, or anyone's belief that a girl who wears a mask is somehow "stronger of spirit" than one who doesn't. All I am saying is that I cannot tell whether the skills are 100% ingrained and natural to the girl if there is a mask involved. Neither can anyone else.

I have no idea why this is so plain for me to see and why others who believe in the mask cannot see the same thing, regardless of why you want the mask. There is a reason 99% of college girls and not a single pro wears a mask. I didn't make that reason but I am aware of it because I have to deal with folks who also know it, whether they will say it or not.

I'm just trying to understand here and not challenge your reasoning. Are you saying that because of the mask during your evaluation process, since you can't see their eyes if they make an error or bobble the ball, you can't be sure of the reason behind it? Or are you saying that you can't judge their skills adequately simply because they wear a mask. Mask or no mask, I would think that you'd be able to see the head turn. Some more questions for you, how do you feel the masks either enhance or detract from the overall skill level of a player? Have you observed players being more aggressive with them versus not wearing them or the opposite? Again, I'm not challenging your reasoning, just trying to completely understand your POV.

 

[obbay]

LAS- I appreciate your candor. I can understand where you are coming from, whether I agree with your evaluation criteria or not, they are YOUR criteria. I was thinking you had to be looking at eyes because there's nothing else you cant see with a mask on. I can't see well enough to see a players eyes in the heat of making the play. I can see if their head is in the wrong position, but not eyes.

My DD wears a mask because I was afraid of her getting one in the face.

Her older sister (age 10) was playing up on a U14 rec summer team. she was becoming a good ballplayer and had no sign of fear of hard hit balls. one day in pre-game practice, one of the coaches asked for a parent volunteer to hit infield so one of the dads volunteered. he was a little rusty and was trying to compensate by hitting the ball harder than the coaches were. when he hit the ball to DD#1 at SS it was a hard one-hopper that caught her in the throat. everyone went silent because the sound it made was so loud, like she was hit in the chest with a bat. she couldn't breath at first, she didn't cry as she was too scared. She sucked it up and wound up playing that day but she was never the same.

When DD#2 was 10 and was playing U12, I let her know that the mask was part of the deal, and she was ok with it. has worn it on the mound and in the IF ever since. she has become one of the most aggressive fielders I have seen.

There is a reason 99% of college girls and not a single pro wears a mask.

Like it ior not, its because they grew up playing when it was only an option when you were recovering from an injury. So they are playing the game as they always had.

I never needed a helmet to ride a bike or skate, but now nobody gives those PPE a second thought.